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 Post subject: The stack and etb triggers
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-27 3:28 am 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-19 12:15 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Sacramento, CA
My opponent has Crypt Ghast with Animate Dead. I have Umezawa's Jitte with 8 counters on it. Is there a order in which my opponent casts Gray Merchant of Asphodel and I respond by removing counters from the Jitte to kill Crypt Ghast but the devotion for Crypt Ghast and Animate Dead still count toward Gray Merchant's etb trigger?

I'm asking because this came up the other week in a game. I hadn't played Commander in a while so I wasn't sure how it worked.

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 Post subject: Re: The stack and etb triggers
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-27 3:41 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Quote:
9/15/2013: If an activated ability or triggered ability has an effect that depends on your devotion to a color, you count the number of mana symbols of that color among the mana costs of permanents you control as the ability resolves. The permanent with that ability will be counted if it's still on the battlefield at that time.


Ghast and Animate Dead still need to be on that battlefield for it count the black symbols. If Merchant's ability is put on the stack and some black mana symbols disappear, they will not be counted.

It doesn't matter for Gray Merchant whether you respond to the cast or the etb, but don't forget you could have also just killed the Ghast in response to them casting if you are unsure.


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 Post subject: Re: The stack and etb triggers
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-27 4:02 am 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-19 12:15 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Sacramento, CA
Yeah, I was talking to another friend about it last night and he assured me there's no way Animate Dead and Crypt Ghast should have counted towards devotion to black for Gray Merchant's trigger. But in the game my opponent was very particular about whether I was responding to the Gray Merchant being cast or its trigger. I said I'm responding to the Gray Merchant being cast. I can't remember how she explained it, but the end result was Gray Merchant's trigger counted the Animate Dead and Crypt Ghast for devotion.

The only scenario I can imagine where she would be right is if I removed 2 counters from the Jitte to kill Crypt Ghast and in response she cast Gray Merchant at instant speed.

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 Post subject: Re: The stack and etb triggers
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-27 4:05 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Yea, instant speed would do it (but not with 8 counters on Jitte you monster).

You could also kill Merchant and his ability would resolve still, but not count his 2 black mana symbols either.


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 Post subject: Re: The stack and etb triggers
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-27 4:52 am 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-19 12:15 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Sacramento, CA
I've owned a Jitte for years but never used it. Recently I built a Bruse Tarl / Akiri deck (now Bruse Tarl / Kraum) so it finally had a home. That was only the second game I had it in play. My opponents were Erebos, God of the Dead, Daretti, Scrap Savant, and Scion of the Ur-Dragon. I had it in play since turn 4. The game ended around turn 15. In total I think I accrued 16 counters. And strangely none of my opponents seemed concerned with it or attempted to destroy it. Both games I had it in play I found it to be excellent at controlling the board, and it facilitates kills with my commander nicely.

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Marchesa, the Black Rose
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