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 Post subject: Re: Spirit of Commander Has Shifted from its Roots?
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-06 8:06 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
trdl23 wrote:
I simply ask "Are we being casual or combo-heavy about this?" and people from both camps reply "Casual" nine times out of ten. .... My point is that talking with the players about their expectations has become useless.

This pisses me off. But it's clearly a symptom of some kind of psychological truth about the human condition. We sat down for a game once where the only rule was "no extra turns" and the guy who won did it by forking time stretch twice. We said "Hey, we said no extra turns" and he said "Oh, I don't have anything, I'm just going to draw six cards on the next six draw steps of these turns." And so we waited and watched, and he drew a land extra turn 1 and a fact or fiction extra turn 2 and by extra turn 5 we were all dead. Then I reinforced that the only rule was "no extra turns" and he didn't seem to get it. It was like he thought it meant "nobody else takes extra turns," or something. Just AMAZING.

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 Post subject: Re: Spirit of Commander Has Shifted from its Roots?
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-06 1:22 pm 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
mmcgeach wrote:
trdl23 wrote:
I simply ask "Are we being casual or combo-heavy about this?" and people from both camps reply "Casual" nine times out of ten. .... My point is that talking with the players about their expectations has become useless.

This pisses me off. But it's clearly a symptom of some kind of psychological truth about the human condition. We sat down for a game once where the only rule was "no extra turns" and the guy who won did it by forking time stretch twice. We said "Hey, we said no extra turns" and he said "Oh, I don't have anything, I'm just going to draw six cards on the next six draw steps of these turns." And so we waited and watched, and he drew a land extra turn 1 and a fact or fiction extra turn 2 and by extra turn 5 we were all dead. Then I reinforced that the only rule was "no extra turns" and he didn't seem to get it. It was like he thought it meant "nobody else takes extra turns," or something. Just AMAZING.

Oh man. That was a perfect opportunity to go full Willy Wonka on that guy. "You stretched fizzy lifting time, bumped into the extra turns that now have to be washed and sterilized, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir!"


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 Post subject: Re: Spirit of Commander Has Shifted from its Roots?
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-06 2:50 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-15 5:03 am
Age: Dragon
Well one psychological truth about human nature is people are much more willing to forgive and justify their own behavior then the behavior of other people. "Oh I'm doing this because those are my last 2 cards, I just wanna get more cards." "Oh I drew a Fact or Fiction I might as well play it." "Oh look at the good things I got." "Hey it's not my fault I drew all those cards."

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 Post subject: Re: Spirit of Commander Has Shifted from its Roots?
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-16 1:34 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-13 6:01 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Washington D.C.
I think a lot of it is due to power creep. With so many removal options and bombs, board states aren't going to be much fun to play against. Someone with the goal of winning at any cost is going to have an easier time going forward.

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 Post subject: Re: Spirit of Commander Has Shifted from its Roots?
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-21 4:01 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-15 5:03 am
Age: Dragon
So I had another thought on this, after winning a game by Primal Surging with my other all-permanent sliver deck... it's a lot easier to theocraft what's effective then it is to theory craft what's fun. When I played primal surge, there was little functional difference between winning and conceding, since I left the game right afterwards (following the advice of a person watching the game.) Tonight was also the first time I've really had a chance to try out my sliver deck.

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 Post subject: Re: Spirit of Commander Has Shifted from its Roots?
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-22 9:08 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
sir squab wrote:
So I had another thought on this, after winning a game by Primal Surging with my other all-permanent sliver deck...
Does that sound like the type of deck the 'Spirit of Commander' would love?

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niheloim wrote:
No, I think he's right. I'm just all butt-hurt over prophet.


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 Post subject: Re: Spirit of Commander Has Shifted from its Roots?
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-22 10:30 am 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-15 5:03 am
Age: Dragon
Ehhh.... I played it a few other times, it turned into "please let me draw primal surge because it is the only conceivable way to win and more importantly not lose to this guy's oppressive board presence." My deck intentionally can't search for that card. Or do infinite combos despite how easy they are to find with Sliver Queen.

Having Primal Surge and the mana to pull it off isn't something the deck can consistently do, and I don't think it's fair to judge a deck by what it does in Christmas-land. Judge what it regularly does. Judge my deck on being a sliver deck with all 4 legends, very little draw or ramp, no infinite combos and not using Sliver Overlord as the general.

I think Sliver decks are problematic because they're either winning with a really dangerous, powerful board state, or they're losing because they can't get their really dangerous, powerful board state out. They're too hit-or-miss.

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 Post subject: Re: Spirit of Commander Has Shifted from its Roots?
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-23 7:10 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I judge decks based on how they want to win. A one card combo isn't exactly screaming 'FUN' to me, not tutoring for it seems like justification of something you know is not liked.

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sir squab wrote:
My... history of buying Magic cards is probably a tapestry of bad financial decisions >_>
niheloim wrote:
No, I think he's right. I'm just all butt-hurt over prophet.


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 Post subject: Re: Spirit of Commander Has Shifted from its Roots?
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-23 7:50 am 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-15 5:03 am
Age: Dragon
Fair point. I might cut the card before I play the deck again. Definitely not planning on playing the deck anytime soon.

My next question is whether or not I should play Tooth and Nail in Freyalise, since most of the time I'm probably gonna find Avenger of Zendikar and Craterhof with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Spirit of Commander Has Shifted from its Roots?
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-23 7:58 am 
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Joined: 2012-Jan-06 10:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Seattle
sir squab wrote:
Fair point. I might cut the card before I play the deck again. Definitely not planning on playing the deck anytime soon.

My next question is whether or not I should play Tooth and Nail in Freyalise, since most of the time I'm probably gonna find Avenger of Zendikar and Craterhof with it.


If you just can't help yourself and you feel you MUST pick those two then why run it?

I have Tooth and Nail in my Mayael deck. Yes, I can pick Avacyn and Archetype of Endurance every time but where is the fun in that? Why not go for Vigor and Gruul Ragebeast or Worldspine Wurm and Stalking Vengeance or Purity and Ruric Thar, Unbowed? I'd rather go for the fun pick rather than the "good" one

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 Post subject: Re: Spirit of Commander Has Shifted from its Roots?
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-23 8:28 am 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-15 5:03 am
Age: Dragon
Vigor's always fun. I suppose I could always find Joraga Warcaller and Immaculate Magistrate...

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