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 Post subject: Re: Generals you absolutely despise
AgePosted: 2013-Aug-31 8:34 am 

Joined: 2012-Nov-16 2:29 pm
Age: Wyvern
Kemev wrote:
YawgsAgenda510 wrote:
Hatshop wrote:


Good one. Tsabo is such a troll general.
-----
Mine are Azami, Thrun, Wanderer, and Azusa. I'm fine with folks playing Riku.


Tsabo's another one I have trouble understanding... she's horribly overcosted and her ability got a major nerf. The most charitable thing I can think of is that she won 3rd place in the "Best 7-mana RB general" contest...

Maybe someone could elaborate a bit?


The thread is about Generals that folks despise. People like playing their generals and having them stay in play. Tsabo stabs right into the heart of that by being able to easily destroy other generals at the table, while lending himself to no real exciting, creative, charismatic strategy.

Pretty cut and dry to see why he would be despised.


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 Post subject: Re: Generals you absolutely despise
AgePosted: 2013-Oct-02 10:59 am 
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Joined: 2009-Feb-11 7:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Our group likes its wraths, me more so than others so Avacyn is a kick in the groin for the group. That said, if I drop venser on the field then my group hates him. What he is is in my hand, woot no incremental commander tax. Bounce that and him, that and him again, rinse and repeat.

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 Post subject: Re: Generals you absolutely despise
AgePosted: 2013-Oct-02 1:07 pm 

Joined: 2009-Jan-23 11:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
You know, Generals are a good at signaling (although not perfectly) what style of deck my opponent is playing.
If I see an opp pull out Tsabo I know I'm going to enjoy the game regardless of what happens because no one plays Tsabo to be hyper competitive. Tsabo tells me my opponent is looking for the experience, not the win.

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That's not ban-worthy, that's the spirit of EDH. Three-card combo involving the combat phase? Awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: Generals you absolutely despise
AgePosted: 2013-Oct-03 4:04 am 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
YawgsAgenda510 wrote:
The thread is about Generals that folks despise. People like playing their generals and having them stay in play. Tsabo stabs right into the heart of that by being able to easily destroy other generals at the table, while lending himself to no real exciting, creative, charismatic strategy.

Pretty cut and dry to see why he would be despised.


(apparently I wandered off in mid-conversation; I thought I wrote another reply months ago)

Anyway, I guess I could have qualified that liking/disliking cards is subjective, so different players are going to have different perceptions of a card.

With that in mind, I can think of a few other generals (like Testsuo, Drana, Horobi, or Empress Galina) that all have similar repeatable Commander hosing effects, except do it much more efficiently than Tsabo Tavoc.

Tsabo's also got a cool backstory; she was one of the premier villains in Invasion, and she's got a few theme cards that are reasonably playable (like Plague Spores, Annihilate, or Reckless Spite), and Phyrexian Altar's really good. She also lends herself pretty well to a RB "death matters" mechanical theme, which has a deep card pool to choose from (which you can tie into the story theme with something like Grave Betrayal - oh no, she's turning your mans into Phyrexians).

So I'm still a bit curious why Tsabo was singled out for special mention, since to me she seems like a fun, flavorful general who ability is no more annoying than several other legends.

Is there some sort of history where a local player was trolling you with his Tsabo deck?

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 Post subject: Re: Generals you absolutely despise
AgePosted: 2013-Oct-03 12:56 pm 
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Joined: 2011-May-04 9:09 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Saskatchewan
Kemev wrote:
YawgsAgenda510 wrote:
The thread is about Generals that folks despise. People like playing their generals and having them stay in play. Tsabo stabs right into the heart of that by being able to easily destroy other generals at the table, while lending himself to no real exciting, creative, charismatic strategy.

Pretty cut and dry to see why he would be despised.


(apparently I wandered off in mid-conversation; I thought I wrote another reply months ago)

Anyway, I guess I could have qualified that liking/disliking cards is subjective, so different players are going to have different perceptions of a card.

With that in mind, I can think of a few other generals (like Testsuo, Drana, Horobi, or Empress Galina) that all have similar repeatable Commander hosing effects, except do it much more efficiently than Tsabo Tavoc.

Tsabo's also got a cool backstory; she was one of the premier villains in Invasion, and she's got a few theme cards that are reasonably playable (like Plague Spores, Annihilate, or Reckless Spite), and Phyrexian Altar's really good. She also lends herself pretty well to a RB "death matters" mechanical theme, which has a deep card pool to choose from (which you can tie into the story theme with something like Grave Betrayal - oh no, she's turning your mans into Phyrexians).

So I'm still a bit curious why Tsabo was singled out for special mention, since to me she seems like a fun, flavorful general who ability is no more annoying than several other legends.

Is there some sort of history where a local player was trolling you with his Tsabo deck?



So I made this Lyzolda deck and of course I put Tsabo into it, being BR and all. I think I got donked in the face with that bloody clone of her more than I got to put the hurt on anyone. I think I may have killed Zedruu, but she always deserves it.


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 Post subject: Re: Generals you absolutely despise
AgePosted: 2013-Oct-03 2:47 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-04 3:38 pm
Age: Dragon
Really, everybody playing a deck with counterspells :mrgreen:

But if I must to make names : Teferi, Arcum Daggson, Edric, Riku, Zur, Azami...oh yeah Jhoira.

What is bad about their decks : most of them are just istant-win combo decks (except Edric).

What is the worst thing about their decks : Countering your answer to their istant-speed combo win (infinite mana with Arcum, infinite card draw with Azami, Kiki-Jiki or Extra Turn shenaningans with Riku, etc.)


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 Post subject: Re: Generals you absolutely despise
AgePosted: 2013-Dec-01 5:17 pm 
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Joined: 2013-Sep-17 5:02 pm
Age: Drake
"Must answer" generals suck when you are playing a casual deck that has little to no pressure on your opponent. It's not that they are inherently unfun, but I feel that a lot of pilots are trying way too hard to win at casual tables, with zero experience against real competitive decks meant to end games before T5. Makes me wish I had a couple thousand for a vintage-tier EDH deck packed with nothing but tutors, counterspells and combos to teach try-hards not to abuse the gentlemen agreement.


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 Post subject: Re: Generals you absolutely despise
AgePosted: 2013-Dec-02 12:11 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-13 6:01 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Washington D.C.
Generals are only as "bad" as the deck that supports them.

Kaalia can't drop an angel, demon, or dragon that isn't in the deck.

Ghave doesn't do anything worthwhile without forcing you to sacrifice or token buffing.

Niv-Mizzet just draws a lot of cards if it can't ping you to death.

The Praetors are the only legends I can think of that are heinous enough on their own to warrant despising. I'll admit I always groan when I see them hit the field... it's worse when they are the general as you know it's coming.

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 Post subject: Re: Generals you absolutely despise
AgePosted: 2013-Dec-02 3:04 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I have a growing hatred for Karador "goodstuff" decks. They are so incredibly resilient and powerful have two control colors, three etb colors, two ramp colors and more b.s. then I can shake a stick at.

euuuggghhh...even Crypt, Nihil, and Relic aren't enough to deal with Karador in my group :(


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 Post subject: Re: Generals you absolutely despise
AgePosted: 2013-Dec-30 6:52 pm 

Joined: 2012-Nov-16 2:29 pm
Age: Wyvern
Kemev wrote:
YawgsAgenda510 wrote:
The thread is about Generals that folks despise. People like playing their generals and having them stay in play. Tsabo stabs right into the heart of that by being able to easily destroy other generals at the table, while lending himself to no real exciting, creative, charismatic strategy.

Pretty cut and dry to see why he would be despised.


(apparently I wandered off in mid-conversation; I thought I wrote another reply months ago)

Anyway, I guess I could have qualified that liking/disliking cards is subjective, so different players are going to have different perceptions of a card.

With that in mind, I can think of a few other generals (like Testsuo, Drana, Horobi, or Empress Galina) that all have similar repeatable Commander hosing effects, except do it much more efficiently than Tsabo Tavoc.

Tsabo's also got a cool backstory; she was one of the premier villains in Invasion, and she's got a few theme cards that are reasonably playable (like Plague Spores, Annihilate, or Reckless Spite), and Phyrexian Altar's really good. She also lends herself pretty well to a RB "death matters" mechanical theme, which has a deep card pool to choose from (which you can tie into the story theme with something like Grave Betrayal - oh no, she's turning your mans into Phyrexians).

So I'm still a bit curious why Tsabo was singled out for special mention, since to me she seems like a fun, flavorful general who ability is no more annoying than several other legends.

Is there some sort of history where a local player was trolling you with his Tsabo deck?


What I meant by Tsabo being a "troll general" is that the person playing the Tsabo deck is going in knowing that the fun of his deck (if everything gets up and running) is to snipe off opposing commanders and in general be a parasite/kingmaker on the game, rather than make any real attempt at winning...etc.

I was commiserating with a different poster who first mentioned it. That's when you jumped in with the appeal to Vorthos (Tsabo's Decree is excellent, btw) and all the questions.

Like you said - It's subjective. Have fun with your Tsabo deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Generals you absolutely despise
AgePosted: 2013-Dec-30 7:31 pm 

Joined: 2012-Nov-16 2:29 pm
Age: Wyvern
Joz wrote:
I have a growing hatred for Karador "goodstuff" decks. They are so incredibly resilient and powerful have two control colors, three etb colors, two ramp colors and more b.s. then I can shake a stick at.

euuuggghhh...even Crypt, Nihil, and Relic aren't enough to deal with Karador in my group :(


Yes. Yes. The super spikey versions can run a million tutors as well.

No fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Generals you absolutely despise
AgePosted: 2013-Dec-31 1:34 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I also hate Karador. The ability to play Survival of the Fittest, then tutor for Karmic Guide and whatever bombs you want is really annoying.

Really this just fuels my hatred for Survival of the Fittest, but Karador makes it even more obnoxious than usual.

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 Post subject: Re: Generals you absolutely despise
AgePosted: 2013-Dec-31 9:25 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-18 11:59 am
Age: Elder Dragon
My favorite thing to do to Karador is help him fill his graveyard by milling them, which they're generally okay with, then wrath the board and play R.I.P.

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 Post subject: Re: Generals you absolutely despise
AgePosted: 2014-Jan-08 9:54 pm 

Joined: 2012-Oct-09 1:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
I have started playing a lot of grave hate as I am getting bored with my mate running a mono black zombie deck and just wrathing a million times then eventually just ressing his stuff or mine then killing me because his deck is mainly wrath and res with some actually good zombies that occasionally appear. It went away from being a fun zombie tribal to a kill everything until nobody has a hand, then res the lot. My group also throws beacon of unrest and other such cards into EVERY SINGLE DECK so I have grave hate in every deck even when it may stop my strat, if it means not dying then it is worth hosing my own general. I have a grave recursion strat when its on theme with my general (which is 2 out of 13), not just in every bloody deck, very annoying, so I can imagine how horrible karador would be!

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 Post subject: Re: Generals you absolutely despise
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-13 2:57 pm 

Joined: 2011-Apr-07 11:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Ghave and karador are my strongest edh decks, so I totally understand the hate. I avoided making them too powerful too...

I usually hate out teferi fast. The only ones I've seen are combo using teferi as protection.

Edric has to be watched closely. If a single card ever reads extra turn, kill them.

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