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 Post subject: Commander/two-headed giant
AgePosted: 2011-Jan-09 1:34 pm 

Joined: 2010-Oct-06 10:13 pm
Age: Hatchling
So I've been loving commander as my multiplayer format of choice, but am concerned with larger tables taking an incredibly long time. Six players seem doable if a little long, but eight man or more would probably take a very, very long time. Has anyone experimented with two-headed giant/commandeer variants? I'm unsure as to using an increased life total for the teams or not, the entire point would be to quicken large games and more life wouldn't help with that.

Comments/suggestions?


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 Post subject: Re: Commander/two-headed giant
AgePosted: 2011-Jan-09 2:09 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
My group does 2v2 EDH, and we also to Emperor using 1 EDH as Emperor for each team, and then 2 normal (60 card) decks as generals.


We've tried 3v3, and 4v4 EDH games in the past..but we don't do that anymore since they take HOURS and hours.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander/two-headed giant
AgePosted: 2011-Jan-09 3:49 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jun-13 2:13 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Memphis, TN
The best format I've seen for seven or more players is a version of Grand Melee. Grand Melee is explained poorly in the Comp Rules (Section 807). Here's what we did:

Each player has Range 1, which means that all of their cards affect only the players sitting right next to them. You can't target or interact at all with the players that are not sitting right next to you. If I resolve Wrath of God, only three players' creatures are destroyed. If one of those creatures is my neighbor's Abyssal Gatekeeper, then both his neighbor and I will then have to sacrifice a creature.

Players take simultaneous turns. With 6-8 players, begin the game with one player and the player across from him taking their first turn. Pass to the left as normal, but don't begin your turn if someone two seats to the left isn't finished with their turn. At no point will you take your turn at the same time as someone who is within two seats of you. This rule, in combination with Range 1, prevents the simultaneous turns from interacting with each other directly. If you have 9 or more players, you can add a third turn to the mix, with Players 1, 4, and 7 beginning the rotation. (I've only done this with 7, though.)

You can only attack left, which means you can only be attacked from the right. The object is to devour your left-hand neighbor over and over until you eventually catch up to your right-hand neighbor. The guy on your right, naturally, will be trying to eat you, and might get eaten by the guy on his right.

When a player leaves the game, their presence lingers until the end of the turn as a buffer between their neighbors. They are included in each neighbor's Range until the end of the turn. This means that you can't combo out the whole table in one turn. You'll have to wait until the following turn to affect your new neighbor.

When there are fewer than 6 players, starting taking one turn at a time. Sorting out the proper order is tricky, and the answer may be a counter-intuituve zigzag pattern. Just make sure that no one goes twice before someone else goes once.

The format is very different from FFA and Star. Beatdown kills players fast, especially if their decks are conditioned for slow FFAs. Victory belongs to the last man standing, however, not the guy who kills the most people, so you have to be able to outlast the onslaughts from your right. If your right hand opponent is weak, he'll be quickly replaced by a strong one. I prefer 4-player FFA and 5- and 6-player Star, but sometimes you have 7. Grand Melee is much faster and more fun than 7-player FFA, and it's also better than the 3-player FFA someone will have to play if you split into 2 games.

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Were you blown away by the insight and hilarity of this post? Damn. Try CommanderCast anyway!


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 Post subject: Re: Commander/two-headed giant
AgePosted: 2011-Jan-09 9:07 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Oct-18 8:52 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oz
Fugu wrote:
The best format I've seen for seven or more players is a version of Grand Melee. Grand Melee is explained poorly in the Comp Rules (Section 807). Here's what we did:

Each player has Range 1, which means that all of their cards affect only the players sitting right next to them. You can't target or interact at all with the players that are not sitting right next to you. If I resolve Wrath of God, only three players' creatures are destroyed. If one of those creatures is my neighbor's Abyssal Gatekeeper, then both his neighbor and I will then have to sacrifice a creature.

If someone else tries to play an enchantment on one of your neighbour's creatures, can you counter it?
Our playgroup (which more often than not plays 3v3 across, Range 1) is constantly* debating this.

* it crops up now and then, and nobody can remember what we decided on last time...

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 Post subject: Re: Commander/two-headed giant
AgePosted: 2011-Jan-10 1:08 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jun-13 2:13 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Memphis, TN
I say no, you can't counter the Aura spell, or destroy it. The Variant Rules section in the comp rules discusses Range of Influence.
Quote:
801.2d An object is within a player's range of influence if it's controlled by that player or by another player within that many seats of that player.
The example aura does not meet this condition.

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Were you blown away by the insight and hilarity of this post? Damn. Try CommanderCast anyway!


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 Post subject: Re: Commander/two-headed giant
AgePosted: 2011-Jan-10 3:26 am 
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Joined: 2009-Oct-18 8:52 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oz
Oooh, a CR quote! Excellent, thank you :)

For casting it's fairly intuitive because the caster is sitting down the other end of the table.
I think where we come unstuck is that the same rule would prevent you from Naturalising the Aura after it's in play; it's physically within your Range while being controlled from outside it.

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Kalterwolf wrote:
Shatter and Bloodshot Trainee may be confirmed via Orb of Insight, but dont quote me on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander/two-headed giant
AgePosted: 2011-May-27 7:06 am 

Joined: 2011-May-27 5:47 am
Age: Hatchling
Our group plays actually only 2HG Commander, but I found that a precise (and official) definition of total life points and other aspects is missing. Here's a list of suggestion:
- team's Life is set to 60 (same principle as usual 2HG, life total is 150% of normal games)
- for poison counters we use 30 as threshold to lose the game (considering that 2HG increases by 50% the threshold of 1vs1 games, thus 15 poison counters, and that EDH uses 200% the life points of 1vs1)

Sure this makes games run slow, but we find that this best resembles the amount of damage needed to win calculated for 1vs1 games; as you can see, we find it ridicolous that an infect deck can win by simply dealing 10 damages when other people must deal at least twice the damage needed to win in 1vs1.

Since sometimes we play 3HG, we applied these rules expanded like this:
- team's life is set to 30 per "head"
- poison threshold is 10 per "head"

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 Post subject: Re: Commander/two-headed giant
AgePosted: 2017-Nov-23 7:08 am 

Joined: 2016-Sep-06 1:21 pm
Age: Egg
Our ocal community is about to launch a Two Headed Giant tournament. I don't find many local precision about what each community is playing. So I would like to ask the opinion of other communities who pratices 2HG, or Rules Committee

- Best starting life total will be 50 or 60 ? Because nothing precise if in classical games, starting life is 150% of 1v1 or multiplayer format.
So 150 % of multi will be 60 pV and 150 % of 1v1 will be 50 (Bases on Leviathan Commander or MTGO)

- Same way for the poison loss SBA. will it be better with 15 or 20 counters on the team ?


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