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 Post subject: Opinions on the issue of Bolas' Gods
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-23 5:17 pm 

Joined: 2018-Apr-23 5:12 pm
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I can't speak for everyone but our local group has become dominated by The Scarab God decks. Combined with Training Grounds this commander deck is the best graveyard deck out there - constantly reanimating the best creatures in every graveyard and with the tuck rules change becomes nearly impossible to deal with. Board wipes just bounce him to hand to recast for 5 mana! Are other playgroups having similar issues with these dodge-the-commander-tax powerhouses? So far the only reliable way to deal with them is Imprisoning them in the moon or turning them into a Forest with Dryads.


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on the issue of Bolas' Gods
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-23 11:35 pm 
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Joined: 2017-Mar-11 6:43 am
Age: Dragon
Honestly, I think this is a non-issue, when compared to Generals like Jeleva.

Usually, I advise avoiding dedicated Graveyard hate- specifically because so few decks which use the graveyard are actually impacted by it- but Scarab God in particular is hit by it as a double-whammy. I still don't find it to be a necessary tool for putting down a Scarab God deck- but consider a few choice options like Relic of Progenitus, Nihil Spellbomb, Ground Seal, Bojuka Bog etc. Any one of these can shut down Scarab for multiple turns at a time, because like Sidisi- Scarab God decks don't use their graveyards for plays in a particularly timely manner.

If there's a bigger picture issue- it could just be that this Scarab God deck is more tuned than whatever else is at the table. Make sure your matchups are done with decks of similar-ish power levels if this a persistent issue. The Scarab God is an especially mana-hungry general (among it's other resource needs.) If the players opposing it don't have manabases of similar strength, this could easily create a disparity in sheer quality of decks represented at the table. Make sure everyone is playing enough land, rocks, and disruption to position themselves well.

In a general Magic sense- cards like Scarab God are only a problem if you forget what they do in context of your opponent's plays. It could simply help to be aware of what all of Scarab god's effects are, how much they cost, and whether or not he's on the field, in the hand, or in the CZ. UB is pretty well known for being a color combination that tries to hold excessive amounts of mana up- watch how your opponents play out and pay for their things- bait permission, exploit how contrived the scaling for each effect is.

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on the issue of Bolas' Gods
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-24 1:59 am 
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kleedrac wrote:
So far the only reliable way to deal with them is Imprisoning them in the moon or turning them into a Forest with Dryads.

There's other options available. I haven't had to fight against him (yet) -- so I'm not sure what all is out there... but here's some other ideas:

Rest in Peace & other graveyard hate
Arrest & variants (Faith's Fetters, etc)
Pithing Needle & variants
Portcullis (odd, but... it'll keep things a bit saner)
AEther Snap (overcosted -- but in EDH when it's usable... it's pretty darn good!)
Stonecloaker

There's answers around - just need to look around for them (or ask people who have played forever, and see how good their memory is.)


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on the issue of Bolas' Gods
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-24 5:30 am 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Orlando, Florida
If you're having issues with dealing with those gods, deal with the in similar manner that you would to the Theros gods. Exile, exile, exile. Barring that, remove his abilities with cards like Darksteel Mutation or Song of the Dryads.


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on the issue of Bolas' Gods
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-24 6:37 am 
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Marit Lage wrote:
If you're having issues with dealing with those gods, deal with the in similar manner that you would to the Theros gods. Exile, exile, exile. Barring that, remove his abilities with cards like Darksteel Mutation or Song of the Dryads.


Weird thing about Theros/Born God-commanders. It's almost always incorrect to go through the effort of nuking them. Everytime someone has gone through the effort of removing Ephara instead of one of my other threats- things start being much more difficult for them, than they are for me- because they're down a premium removal spell, and my do-nothing Commander just costs a little more to occupy the board :D

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on the issue of Bolas' Gods
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-24 6:48 am 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
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Location: Orlando, Florida
Mr Degradation wrote:
Marit Lage wrote:
If you're having issues with dealing with those gods, deal with the in similar manner that you would to the Theros gods. Exile, exile, exile. Barring that, remove his abilities with cards like Darksteel Mutation or Song of the Dryads.


Weird thing about Theros/Born God-commanders. It's almost always incorrect to go through the effort of nuking them. Everytime someone has gone through the effort of removing Ephara instead of one of my other threats- things start being much more difficult for them, than they are for me- because they're down a premium removal spell, and my do-nothing Commander just costs a little more to occupy the board :D
I suppose. I'm usually playing white/x, so I've got tons of "exile your thing," so I don't normally have an issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on the issue of Bolas' Gods
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-24 8:12 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Posting my list above -- I did notice that a lot of the stuff I proposed was white.

So... if you're not playing a white deck, it really limits your options available to you to deal with the Gods in any semi-permanent way.


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on the issue of Bolas' Gods
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-24 8:22 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
GY hate really is the best answer to the Scarab God. I firmly disagree with Mr Degradation about it in general. So many decks use the graveyard and most solid GY hate pieces have other functions as well. Things like Relic of Progenitus, Ground Seal, or Nihil Spellbomb replace themselves, while cards like Scavenging Ooze and Night Soil bring other advantages to the table. I personally never build a deck that doesn't have at least 2 sources of GY hate. Even cards like Time Spiral are pretty great at shutting down GY decks.

Another thing to consider is how are all of these cards getting into the GY? Because if the Scarab God player is using strategies like multi-target mill or discard, join them. They can't reanimate squat if you reanimate or recur it first.

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on the issue of Bolas' Gods
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-24 9:42 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Echoing the necessity of GY hate. Main deck, in every deck.

But secondly, something people just have to do is discuss decks before you play. If Scarab God is crushing your meta, let those 4 decks fight each other, and play against something at a power level you like.

It is so rare to sit down with someone and say 'hey that looks pretty powerful, do you have something else to play' and just get a straight 'nope' in response.

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on the issue of Bolas' Gods
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-24 10:26 pm 

Joined: 2015-Dec-22 4:41 am
Age: Drake
Just toss down a Humility and be done with it. They can have all the 1/1's they want.

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on the issue of Bolas' Gods
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-24 11:21 pm 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
MMLgamer wrote:
Just toss down a Humility and be done with it. They can have all the 1/1's they want.

That's a bit of a nuclear solution, given it gimps absolutely all the decks.

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on the issue of Bolas' Gods
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-25 7:00 am 
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Uktabi_Kong wrote:

Another thing to consider is how are all of these cards getting into the GY?


This is a good point. Why is your junk in the yard?

Also, needs more Engineered Explosives.

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on the issue of Bolas' Gods
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-25 7:07 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
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I'm assuming the Petroglyphs was in reference to Humility?

However -- I'm confused as to the usefulness of Engineered Explosives in the current context..


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on the issue of Bolas' Gods
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-25 8:54 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Scarab God isn't a true reanimator: he creates tokens. Engineered Explosives and friends read "kill all tokens instantly".

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on the issue of Bolas' Gods
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-25 9:04 am 
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Joined: 2017-Mar-11 6:43 am
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Uktabi_Kong wrote:
I firmly disagree with Mr Degradation about it in general.


Oh, hey dude :D

Just to clarify- I like cards that do it in passing like Scavenging Ooze and Stonecloaker (I actually play Dryad Militant in my Trostani deck, even though it has quite a bit of recursion)- and think that the ones that replace themselves are fine in decks that weaponize their graveyard less or not at all. What I'm generally referring to, in terms of "dedicated GY hate" is things like Rest in Peace and Tormod's Crypt- most specifically, because in my own experiences- a player will pack them to handle someone in their playgroup- only to realize that these cards don't outright stop recursion, they just disrupt it at crucial moments. That kind of arms race leads to members of the playgroup making their decks worse with GY hate that doesn't line up specifically well with their strategy- especially when they could just use their own sources of recursion to get further ahead.

In that regard, my opposition to GY hate is "don't make your own deck worse just to play it"- but in decks like Kresh, or especially mono-colored decks without infinite mana or anything that goes quite that big, it's more than justifiable to be able to manage their opponent's recursion. But, time and time again- players have nailed my graveyard to get a single threat or a Deep Analysis- after which, I just proceed to setup whatever recursion I was going to perform and execute it in the same turn. When it would be better to out-accelerate, or hold onto the GY hate for an awkward pause that chokes the resource for long enough to matter.

Hope I wasn't misleading :)

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