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 Post subject: Guile, commanders and this website
AgePosted: 2017-Nov-12 12:24 am 

Joined: 2015-Dec-22 4:41 am
Age: Drake
So, I just found out that Guile has some potential interaction with the command zone and my opponents' commanders, and this brings up a very, very small issue.

The interaction is this: If you control a Guile and exile an opponent's commander with a Counterspell, and your opponent puts it into the command zone instead of exile, you can still cast it. HOWEVER, according to the comprehensive rules, you actually have to pay command tax if you do this more than once to the same opposing commander in a game. Unfortunately, anyone relying solely on this website for commander rules won't know this, as it clearly says "Owner" in the relevant rule on the main page.

I realize that the rules on the main mtgcommander.net page are not comprehensive and they probably weren't meant to be, but... but... *dies*

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 Post subject: Re: Guile, commanders and this website
AgePosted: 2017-Nov-12 12:48 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
OK, technically you're right... but how often is this going to come up, realistically? And how many people are going to fight you on it when you show them it's in the CR? And let's face it, you CAN show them - everyone has a smart phone these days.

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 Post subject: Re: Guile, commanders and this website
AgePosted: 2017-Nov-12 3:13 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
1) This seems like an extremely rare situation.

2) I don't think it works the way you think it does.

Rule in question:
CompRules wrote:
903.8. A player may cast a commander he or she owns from the command zone. A commander cast from the command zone costs an additional {2} for each previous time the player casting it has cast it from the command zone that game.


So, yes, it does say "each time the player casting it has cast it from the command zone" -- however, it's immediately behind the rule that lets you cast your own commander from the command zone. This kind of context means that the rule about the commander tax only applies when you are casting your own commander from the command zone via this rule that allows you to do so.

Casting it via any other means doesn't incur the command tax. IMO.

I contend that, if it were the way you were interpreting it, then the bit about the extra {2} mana required would be it's own separate rule and not part of the same rule that lets you cast your own commander from the command zone.


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 Post subject: Re: Guile, commanders and this website
AgePosted: 2017-Nov-12 4:02 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
So let me get this straight:
If a player controls guile, and that players counters a commander and subsequently plays that commander, then the commander leaves play, is cast again and is countered again whilst guile is in play, by the same person, and the people involved know about the commander redirection rule, know about how that rule interacts with exile effects but somehow relies exclusively on the front page of this website for commander rules, then those people wont know about this interaction...
STOP. THE. PRESSES.

Ok, that was perhaps a little mean, but honestly if they understand the rules sufficiently to make any part of that interaction work then they must have at least a preliminary understanding of the CR. If you rely on this website for all of your rules understanding then there are probably a lot of other things you will struggle with.

Additionally, pay the two, dont pay the two, even if all the planets align for this to matter, grab a smart phone, ask your most judge like friend, or just good ol' fashions pistols at dawn to work it out.

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 Post subject: Re: Guile, commanders and this website
AgePosted: 2017-Nov-12 5:08 pm 

Joined: 2015-Dec-22 4:41 am
Age: Drake
Okay, mountains and molehills aside, can we get an official interpretation of how this interaction works? Do you pay the {2} here, or don't you?

EDIT: Okay, so I found the answer myself with a little research.

The answer used to be no, as indicated by this forum thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9865

However, as of the Born of the God rules update, the answer is yes, as indicated by the official rules bulletin of that set: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 14-01-28-0

Quote:
We updated this rule to state that if you cast a commander owned by someone else from the command zone (as can happen with Daxos of Meletis), the "commander tax" applies.


So, there you have it. I guess I'll just bookmark that page on my phone.

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