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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-28 2:53 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Carthain wrote:
It's all magic. So why dwell on the specifics? Magic can accomplish anything. In D&D, magic armor typically resizes to fit the wearer -- why can't greaves adjust in size/shape to fit over a birds legs/claws, or a snakes torso?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVgVB3qsySQ


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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-28 11:18 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Sounds about right. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-29 12:47 am 
EDH Rules Committee

Joined: 2006-May-18 5:21 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Carthain wrote:
Magic can accomplish anything.


Except, apparently, summon someone from two places in their timeline.


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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-29 11:38 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Nigerian Prince wrote:
So I am curious how other groups feel about this. How much do you consider flavor during building? Do you have any group policies about it?


While I understand why WotC has made the changes they have, I wish they were more restrictive (See this post). Name as type on legends so only one of a given "version" can be out at any time.

More generically, I build tribal (nearly all of my decks are tribal - I'll make exceptions when the creature type is on the card (e.g. Wirewood Savage in a beast deck sorely lacking in < 4cmc creatures), when warranted. But that's about it.) mostly for flavor, but also to have a "reason" to avoid "staples" (e.g. Solemn Simulacrum is only going in a Golem deck, Eternal Witness can only be in Human or Shaman tribal, etc.).

zimagic wrote:
C'mon guys, the most egregious flavour fail in Magic is not making Ragavan a pirate, we all know that!


Nah, she's the pirate, he's the comic relief. IMNSHO, Saskia (The last remaining Chieftain of the Balduvian Barbarians, isn't a barbarian? or a warrior?) is the most egregious flavor fail in the last decade, followed closely by Nekusar (look at him, he's a friggin' Skeleton)

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Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-30 12:56 pm 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Treamayne wrote:
While I understand why WotC has made the changes they have, I wish they were more restrictive (See this post). Name as type on legends so only one of a given "version" can be out at any time.


So no legend type and no legendary rule? Or you mean as a subtype, so you can name Mirri for Obelisk of Urd and Conspiracy?


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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Oct-01 1:52 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
We have no local flavor restrictions, and I don't see that ever changing.

Personally, I restrict myself on theme-related flavor, but not on story-related flavor. So I don't care if character X could never have worked with character Y, or if I have 2 versions of character X in the same deck. I DO care if something is off-theme - for example I don't run Crypt Ghast in my Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief deck, because it's not a vampire and the deck is built to be vampire tribal.

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"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Oct-01 3:25 am 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Drake
I'm a vorthos-ish player. I like my decks most when they have some story or mechanical theme. For example, I built a Queen Marchesa deck that specifically was only going to feature creatures that would be associated with a tyrannical theme, which meant no Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder as much as I'd have liked him in there. After C17 came out it morphed into a Mathas, Fiend Seeker deck and I dropped the story elements for focus on a specific non-winning game outcome (manipulating combat and incentivising people to go after bounties).

When I build decks, I try to ensure they seem relatively coherent: a Dragonslayer in a Dragon deck doesn't make much sense; an Eldrazi in a General Tazri deck doesn't feel right (tribal utility concerns aside).

However at some point the game's just mechanics, and the flavor is there to give the illusion it's more than just a card game. The game is built to run on the mechanics, not the flavor.

I will put my Swiftfoot Boots on a Snake, I will equip Grenzo, Dungeon Warden with Hero's Blade. I put both Grenzos (i.e. that one and Grenzo, Havoc Raiser) in my Queen Marchesa deck and decided they're just cousins who happened to get the same name.

My flavor choices are personal though. Once we're at the table, the mechanics run the game, not the flavor or the storyline. If someone wants to play multiple Garruks, that's all fine with me. The people who voted nobody should ever play two Garruks -- that's not the game rules post-Ixalan, so roll with the rules. If you wanted story to say how the game must work, you might as well just say that once someone plays Ugin, the Spirit Dragon then the Narset, Enlightened Master in play must be exiled because it's no longer her timeline. You might as well also say that The Chain Veil can only be used to activate post-curse Garruk's abilities and pre-cursing Liliana's abilities, and can't be played in a nonblack EDH deck. The game wasn't made to be played that way though, and once you start playing it with flavor/story ruling, it begins to look very different -- and really I'm not sure where we'd draw the line that isn't completely arbitrary. Could Hero's Blade be wielded by Hero of Bladehold, if they were never in Tarkir? If yes, why?

Power to you if you'd rather restrict your deckbuilding and your gameplay, but it's not meant to affect anyone else, and I think we can agree it doesn't mean cards can do extra things (like that Ugin/Narset example).

I can share my flavor choices with others in ways that invite them to enjoy it as well. I got out some special coins I've had for years (these ones mixed with some others) to use for my bounty counters with Mathas, for example, because I thought that was fun and others do too. However if it's not for them (they might want different counters used for some reason) that's fine.

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Decks: Mathas, the Instigator (politics and mayhem), and Intet dragons (so many dragons) (actually not enough dragons)
Beloved precons: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice; Saskia the Unyielding; Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury.


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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Oct-02 9:24 am 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
Spacemonaut, we may not see eye to eye on deck construction, but damn that was one well thought-out, well written post. My metaphorical hat is off to you, sir.

Feel free to PM me if you want to help with a janky Norin deck that does not include Puphorous or Impact Tremors.

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specter404 wrote:
Basically, when it comes to commander, I want you to stab me through the heart, not cut off my balls.

Gath Immortal wrote:
Twenty Kavus and a Dream is not a legacy deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Oct-03 12:19 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
kirkusjones wrote:
Feel free to PM me if you want to help with a janky Norin deck that does not include Puphorous or Impact Tremors.


Unpossible!!

PS: or Confusion in the Ranks?

PPS: Colour me interested.

_________________
Current decks:
Sydri's random pile of cards with "Artifact" on them
Scarab God Zombie Horde
Atraxa Superfriends
Yidris Eldrazi (4C Devoid)
Sissay Angel Oath
Wort's Goblin Conspiracy
Gonti's Mega-Bouncy Castle


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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Oct-03 4:26 am 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Drake
kirkusjones wrote:
Spacemonaut, we may not see eye to eye on deck construction, but damn that was one well thought-out, well written post. My metaphorical hat is off to you, sir.

Feel free to PM me if you want to help with a janky Norin deck that does not include Puphorous or Impact Tremors.


Well, gosh, thank you. :D

If I'm being completely honest I might actually put a couple of Eldrazi cards in a Tazri deck. It'd be funny: oh crap, how'd that get in there!?

Count me interested too. I'll send you a PM.

_________________
Decks: Mathas, the Instigator (politics and mayhem), and Intet dragons (so many dragons) (actually not enough dragons)
Beloved precons: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice; Saskia the Unyielding; Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury.


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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Oct-19 11:45 am 

Joined: 2012-May-21 2:31 pm
Age: Drake
Nigerian Prince wrote:
Would you play both Glissa Sunseeker and Glissa, the Traitor in the same deck? What about Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?


papa_funk wrote:
Carthain wrote:
Magic can accomplish anything.


Except, apparently, summon someone from two places in their timeline.


Frankly, I have less of a problem with this since Time Spiral. And as previously posted, any time that you have say all the Jace's together, or Karn, Silver Golem and Karn Liberated out, or Akroma, Angel of Fury and Akroma, Angel of Wrath, a wizard probably did it. Or time happened weird. Or as it was always supposed to?

Temporal Adept wrote:
"If yesterday was two days ago tomorrow, will the day after tomorrow be today or yesterday?"
—Temporal Manipulation 101 final exam,
Tolarian Academy


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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Oct-25 8:23 am 

Joined: 2013-Mar-15 8:39 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Canada, Ontario
I feel like as part of the deck construction unique sub types like Liliana and Koth should be limited to just one of that type. So you wouldn't be able to run all the versions of Liliana. It would make things more interesting and I feel like it would be a good change for the format. Although pretty sure planeswalker decks would want to linch me :(


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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Oct-25 8:40 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Bull wrote:
I feel like as part of the deck construction unique sub types like Liliana and Koth should be limited to just one of that type.

But... doesn't the fact that there's multiple cards with that sub-type mean it's no longer a unique sub-type?


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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Oct-25 5:20 pm 

Joined: 2015-Apr-23 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Carthain wrote:
Bull wrote:
I feel like as part of the deck construction unique sub types like Liliana and Koth should be limited to just one of that type.

But... doesn't the fact that there's multiple cards with that sub-type mean it's no longer a unique sub-type?


Seems you're trying very hard not to understand what he means...

Personally, I'd prefer that Commander rules wouldn't follow this general MTG rule change, and stick with the planeswalker uniqueness rule. But I understand that this would be quite a stretch, and perhaps a dangerous precedent.


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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Oct-25 7:07 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
Has anyone noticed a shift towards players controlling multiple of different versions of the same PWs?

Maybe my group is just not aggressive enough updating decks but I have yet to see one instance of that. Barring Jace / Liliana, I really cannot see the draw of pushing multiple same-character PWs onto the battlefield and I guess my group agrees.

_________________
Current decks:
Sydri's random pile of cards with "Artifact" on them
Scarab God Zombie Horde
Atraxa Superfriends
Yidris Eldrazi (4C Devoid)
Sissay Angel Oath
Wort's Goblin Conspiracy
Gonti's Mega-Bouncy Castle


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