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 Post subject: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-25 7:27 pm 

Joined: 2015-Apr-23 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Had a player last weekend who had a Garruk in play, and another one in hand, he asked if it was okay to play the second one already or do we have to wait until Ixalan release. A rather lengthy and animated discussion followed, not so much about the above question, but about flavor in commander decks in general. Opinions were divided between 'sure, you don't have to wait for Ixalan release' and 'you should NEVER play two Garruks'. Some of us feel everything that's allowed can go in a deck, others, including myself, think there should be some self regulation considering flavor of cards and decks.

I wouldn't put two Garruks in a deck, I feel planeswalkers are supposed to be unique (never liked the legendary rule change either that says opponents both can control copies of the same PW or legendary card). I wouldn't put Sheoldred, whispering one in a vampire deck either, it just doesn't belong.

So I am curious how other groups feel about this. How much do you consider flavor during building? Do you have any group policies about it?

Would you play both Glissa Sunseeker and Glissa, the Traitor in the same deck? What about Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?

Are there groups out there who still play with the old Legendary rule?


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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-25 9:12 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-19 1:30 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I actually think having two versions of the same planeswalker out makes more sense than two versions of the same legend. I mean, having two Mirri creatures out means she's actually there twice. On the other hand, planeswalker cards are more there to conceptually represent an ally, and having two Garruks, for example, can be thought of as having Garruk becoming twice as invested in your fight as he was before (he's throwing TWO spells for you a turn instead of the single one he was before, and willing to take twice the damage before planeswalking away and leaving you to fend for yourself).

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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-25 11:04 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Willbender wrote:
I actually think having two versions of the same planeswalker out makes more sense than two versions of the same legend. I mean, having two Mirri creatures out means she's actually there twice. On the other hand, planeswalker cards are more there to conceptually represent an ally, and having two Garruks, for example, can be thought of as having Garruk becoming twice as invested in your fight as he was before (he's throwing TWO spells for you a turn instead of the single one he was before, and willing to take twice the damage before planeswalking away and leaving you to fend for yourself).

Not to mention that half the time the PWs' character is radically different from card to card. Garruk Wildspeaker and Garruk, Apex Predator have nothing in common except a liking for 3/3 beasts.

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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-25 11:24 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-12 3:20 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Willbender wrote:
I mean, having two Mirri creatures out means she's actually there twice.

Under that logic, if she were to die under your control, then Mirri is dead. Not to mention... she's actually *already* dead and there is no way for her to be alive at the same time as many current Legendary creatures and/or Planeswalkers.

So the "Mirri" you control isn't and can't be the "actual" Mirri. There has to be some sort of instancing or alternate dimension wackiness happening behind the scenes. I'll leave the details to the individual players.

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My general commander philosophy: Stealing your opponent's degenerate cards is far more satisfying then playing your own.


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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-25 11:36 pm 

Joined: 2015-Apr-23 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
Willbender wrote:
I actually think having two versions of the same planeswalker out makes more sense than two versions of the same legend. I mean, having two Mirri creatures out means she's actually there twice. On the other hand, planeswalker cards are more there to conceptually represent an ally, and having two Garruks, for example, can be thought of as having Garruk becoming twice as invested in your fight as he was before (he's throwing TWO spells for you a turn instead of the single one he was before, and willing to take twice the damage before planeswalking away and leaving you to fend for yourself).

Not to mention that half the time the PWs' character is radically different from card to card. Garruk Wildspeaker and Garruk, Apex Predator have nothing in common except a liking for 3/3 beasts.


Doesn't that make it more awkward? You'd have a Garruk from years ago supporting you alongside today's Garruk.


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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-26 12:18 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Do you also never play Venser or Elspeth because they are now dead?

How do you justify the Green and the Black version of Mirri being on the battlefield at once? (even with different controllers)


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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-26 12:50 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
C'mon guys, the most egregious flavour fail in Magic is not making Ragavan a pirate, we all know that!

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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-26 1:59 am 
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Joined: 2006-May-18 5:21 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Do you also decline to put Lightning Greaves on creatures that don't have feet?


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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-26 2:56 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
papa_funk wrote:
Do you also decline to put Lightning Greaves on creatures that don't have feet?

I've had someone say I shouldn't have Chariot of Victory in my no-theme Thromok deck before, because hellions can't ride chariots. So I suppose yours is possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-26 5:32 am 

Joined: 2009-Jun-14 11:37 am
Age: Drake
I would not try to do it before set release. However the arguments presented here would just spur me to build a super friends deck and make sure that multiple versions of the same Planeswalker would end up on the battlefield at the same time.


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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-26 5:54 am 
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Joined: 2007-Mar-28 12:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Otaria
I know there's been a few times where "That dog (Isamaru) really shouldn't be able to hold that many swords," has been stated in our playgroup, but I don't think anyone bats an eye mechanically. Certainly no one is getting up from the table because of it (unless it hits you for 21).

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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-26 7:05 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Jeyal wrote:
I know there's been a few times where "That dog (Isamaru) really shouldn't be able to hold that many swords," has been stated in our playgroup, but I don't think anyone bats an eye mechanically. Certainly no one is getting up from the table because of it (unless it hits you for 21).

Na, you just need to be prepared, like this guy
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-26 7:51 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Viperion wrote:
Jeyal wrote:
I know there's been a few times where "That dog (Isamaru) really shouldn't be able to hold that many swords," has been stated in our playgroup, but I don't think anyone bats an eye mechanically. Certainly no one is getting up from the table because of it (unless it hits you for 21).

Na, you just need to be prepared, like this guy
Image

I was thinking Sif from Dark Souls.

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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-26 4:47 pm 

Joined: 2015-Apr-23 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
To be clear, I'm definitely not advocating for any rule change here, I'm talking about self imposed deck building restrictions in our group.

Green Mirri and black Mirri at the same time would be awkward to me. Under different controllers, well, not much I can do about.

I'd play 'dead' characters like Elspeth or Venser, I didn't even know they're dead in MTG storyline. At least you could say that death is not a condition without possibilities in the multiverse, plenty of characters are technically dead but still very involved.

And yeah, equipping Ohran Viper with Lightning Greaves would definitely feel weird to me. I mean, boots on a snake, don't card names matter at all?

I'm just interested in how far people go to build a 'thematically correct' deck. Does anything go, or do you draw the line at off color fetches? Is a tribal deck okay for you if 75% of the creatures fit the theme, or do you go for 100%? Do three Jaces on the battlefield make you nauseous?


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 Post subject: Re: Flavor Fails and new PW Legendary rule
AgePosted: 2017-Sep-26 10:45 pm 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I never impose upon myself that way. There is, as demonstrated, enough weird things happening that if you look at it already. So why would you hinder yourself that way?

Sure, BoP wielding two Swords of X and Y seems ridiculous -- but someone comments on it, everyone agrees or has another funny comment, and you move on.

Last FNM people were commenting on how my 1/3 bird was equipped with two +0/+3 shields -- to which I just explained that those shields are now it's wings. And we just carried on.

Also -- it's in the name of the game: It's all magic. So why dwell on the specifics? Magic can accomplish anything. In D&D, magic armor typically resizes to fit the wearer -- why can't greaves adjust in size/shape to fit over a birds legs/claws, or a snakes torso?


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