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 Post subject: Re: Rules that shaped the Format- remove one!
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-29 3:48 am 

Joined: 2016-Jan-26 10:14 am
Age: Hatchling
One rule I would love to see changed is the replacement effect for Commanders going back to the zone. I wish this was an "afterwards" effect which happens after normal "dies" triggers occurs, rather than a replacement effect altogether. As the rules stand, Black cards receive an overwhelming disadvantage to this rule. Grave Pact, Deathreap Ritual, Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet, Glissa, the Traitor, and a huge list of other cards don't trigger because the commanders, either mine or yours, don't die. This is unequally unfair to black cards. Kalitas and Glissa, for example, can't even become high-level competitive commanders because of this rule.

Tokens currently go to the graveyard, trigger the die effect, then cease to exist. There's literally no reason why commanders can't go the graveyard THEN be moved to the command zone. I get that some cards don't work for commander, but die triggers are a massive part of black mechanics, and it sucks. Commander rules shouldn't unfairly affect major mechanics from one color pool.


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 Post subject: Re: Rules that shaped the Format- remove one!
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-29 5:28 am 

Joined: 2009-Jun-12 7:46 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Wouldn't moving it to an "after" trigger mean that if it got shuffled into your library, you would have to put your Commander into your library, shuffle it, then dig through your library, get it out, move it to the commander zone, and then shuffle your library again?

I suppose most people would just short cut that, but it would still look weird in the rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Rules that shaped the Format- remove one!
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-29 6:24 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Mac Aoidh wrote:
Tokens currently go to the graveyard, trigger the die effect, then cease to exist. There's literally no reason why commanders can't go the graveyard THEN be moved to the command zone. I get that some cards don't work for commander, but die triggers are a massive part of black mechanics, and it sucks. Commander rules shouldn't unfairly affect major mechanics from one color pool.

So you mean you want to capitalize on a 'dies' trigger happening when you kill an opposing commander. If that's the case, I'm not sure I'd want the rules to change. It's not much different than the 40 life negatively impacting the ability for Aggro to thrive.

Also - there's 213 black cards (169 mono-black) that have the word "dies" on it. There's over 3300 black cards. I don't feel it's negatively punishing black that much (also, a quick search shows 124 green cards (94 mono-green) that have the word "dies"). It's not like black has a monopoly on that triggering event.

I may punish black a bit more -- but also see my above comparison to the Aggro strategy in Commander.


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 Post subject: Re: Rules that shaped the Format- remove one!
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-29 8:10 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
I think it would be a fine change. You would lose out on the more interesting decisions with commanders like Child of Alara and the Kamigawa dragons- do you let them die or send them back to the command zone?... But I think the loss isn't detrimental to maybe making them more appealing as commanders.

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 Post subject: Re: Rules that shaped the Format- remove one!
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-29 10:50 pm 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
niheloim wrote:
I think it would be a fine change. You would lose out on the more interesting decisions with commanders like Child of Alara and the Kamigawa dragons- do you let them die or send them back to the command zone?... But I think the loss isn't detrimental to maybe making them more appealing as commanders.

This is kind of reinforcing your point -- but did you know that you just named 6 of the 10 commanders that this change would benefit? :) (and poor Haakon would be even sadder)


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 Post subject: Re: Rules that shaped the Format- remove one!
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-30 5:18 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Theres 10? The 6 I mentioned were the only ones I could think of...

But what point is being reinforced?

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 Post subject: Re: Rules that shaped the Format- remove one!
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-30 6:26 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I thought your point was that this particular proposed change wouldn't be detrimental to the format. As, in regards to commanders, it only affects 10 (out of 680?) possible commanders.

As for the other 4:
* He Who Hungers
* Omnath, Locus of Rage
* Tuktuk the Explorer
* Kodama of the Center Tree


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 Post subject: Re: Rules that shaped the Format- remove one!
AgePosted: 2017-Jun-30 6:52 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
I follow you. Yeah, the commanders affected are few, which is also a reason to not make the change I suppose.

I think the reason for the move being a replacement effect might have stemmed from the ability to shuffle graveyards into libraries so readily at instant speed... maybe. Now that the commander can be Command Zoned when going to the library from a public zone I can't think of too many shenanigans.

Though that one would have to be a replacement effect in order for it to be nice. Imagine having it be a triggered effect. Whenever you commander is placed into the library search your library... That would be a lot of shuffling.

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