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 Post subject: Viperion's 32 deck challenge: BG/Golgari: Savra
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-17 4:33 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
ImageImageSavra, Queen of the GolgariImageImage

Theme: Creature control and late game inevitability

Link to deckstats deck list: https://deckstats.net/decks/5132/21044- ... -sacrifice

Decklist:
//Sideboard
SB: 1 Savra, Queen of the Golgari # !Commander

//Sac creatures
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Hell's Caretaker #also gets 'em back
1 Nantuko Husk
1 Plaguecrafter
1 Ruthless Knave
1 Shambling Shell
1 Shriekmaw
1 Skeletal Vampire
1 Skullmulcher
1 Slum Reaper
1 Smothering Abomination
1 Thoughtpicker Witch

// Sac Outlets and Consequences
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Grave Pact
1 Perilous Forays
1 Plunge into Darkness
1 Reprocess
1 Skulltap
1 Spawning Pit

//Get 'em Back
1 Bloodghast
1 Dread Return
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gleancrawler
1 Golgari Grave-Troll
1 Grave-Shell Scarab
1 Journey to Eternity
1 Life from the Loam
1 Living End
1 Regrowth
1 Rescue from the Underworld # also sac outlet
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Stitch Together
1 Victimize

//Graveyard Filling and Counting
1 Corpse Connoisseur
1 Graveblade Marauder
1 Grisly Salvage
1 Izoni, Thousand-Eyed
1 Jarad's Orders
1 Lotleth Troll
1 Mortivore
1 Seed Guardian
1 Stinkweed Imp
1 Sudden Reclamation
1 Underrealm Lich
1 Vulturous Zombie
1 Worm Harvest

//Other
1 Amulet of Vigor
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Catacomb Sifter
1 Corpsejack Menace
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Creakwood Liege
1 Death's Presence
1 Grave Titan
1 Liliana Vess
1 Massacre Wurm
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Ogre Slumlord
1 Pestilence Demon
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Plague Boiler
1 Putrefy
1 Seedguide Ash
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped

//Mana
1 Barren Moor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Grim Backwoods #and (bad) sac outlet
1 High Market # and sac outlet
1 Miren, the Moaning Well #and sac outlet
1 Svogthos, the Restless Tomb
1 Tranquil Thicket
10 Forest
16 Swamp

Notes/Comments: This deck is all about keeping your creatures off the board and then winning out of the graveyard with something like Golgari Grave Troll or Svogthos or Worm Harvest.

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

"I'm happy to serve as a quote machine" - Sheldon


Last edited by Viperion on 2018-Nov-10 7:11 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Viperion's 32 deck challenge: BG/Golgari: Savra
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-17 4:35 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Most recent changes

11/11/18
-1 Corpsejack Menace
-1 Courser of Kruphix
-1 Grave-Shell Scarab
-1 Mortivore
+1 Izoni, Thousand-Eyed
+1 Journey to Eternity
+1 Plaguecrafter
+1 Underrealm Lich

22/10/18
-1 Reaper of the Wilds (going into Damia)
-1 Beacon of Unrest
+1 Avenger of Zendikar
+1 Grave Titan

(18/9/18)

-1 Culling Dais
-1 Deadwood Treefolk
-1 Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
-1 Fleshwrither
-1 Gobbling Ooze
-1 Korozda Guildmage
-1 Launch Party
-1 Leyline of the Void
-1 Nether Traitor
-1 Overgrown Tomb
-1 Skarrg Goliath
-1 Sluiceway Scorpion
-1 Splinterfright
-1 Verdant Catacombs
-1 Grave Titan
-1 Deathgorge Scavenger

+1 Beacon of Unrest
+1 Courser of Kruphix
+1 Death's Shadow
+1 Graveblade Marauder
+1 Liliana Vess
+1 Oblivion Stone
+1 Pestilence Demon
+1 Ruthless Knave
+1 Seed Guardian
+1 Sudden Reclamation
+1 Forest
+3 Swamp

So I discovered I was only running 33 lands.... fixed now

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

"I'm happy to serve as a quote machine" - Sheldon


Last edited by Viperion on 2018-Nov-10 7:09 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Viperion's 32 deck challenge: BG/Golgari: Savra
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-17 4:36 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Cards to add:

This deck is slow and bad.... I need help here please! :lol:

Izoni, Thousand-Eyed (Added)
Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest (Shabbaman)
Smothering Abomination (Shabbaman) (Added)
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord or Lord of Extinction (but not both)
Costly Plunder
Merciless Resolve
Journey to Eternity (Added)
Poison-Tip Archer
Doom Whisperer
Necrotic Wound
Plaguecrafter (Added)
Undercity Necrolisk
Hatchery Spider
Molderhulk
Underrealm Lich (Added)
Yahenni, Undying Partisan
Bontu the Glorified
Hornet Queen
Avenger of Zendikar Added
Abhorrent Overlord
Grave Titan Added
Altar of Dementia
Greater Good
Golgari Thug
Necroplasm
Night Soil
Necrogenesis
Vona's Hunger

Maybe:
Evolutionary Leap

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

"I'm happy to serve as a quote machine" - Sheldon


Last edited by Viperion on 2018-Nov-10 7:08 am, edited 7 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Viperion's 32 deck challenge: BG/Golgari: Savra
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-18 5:23 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
Viperion wrote:
Most recent changes (18/9/18)

-1 Grave Titan

+1 Grave Titan


Loving these changes.

Viperion wrote:
Cards to add:

This deck is slow and bad.... I need help here please! :lol:

Izoni, Thousand-Eyed


So...

Once upon a time I had a Savra deck, which was slow and bad. It was the era of slow and bad EDH decks, but even back then it was on its own in the slow class. I'm a Grave Pact player through and through, so for me the opportunity to have Grave Pact redundancy with card draw stapled to it was hard to let go. I did find that while I enjoy playing (with and against) Grave Pact, most players do not; apparently it is misused and this interpreted as a stax component, instead of the brilliant rattlesnake it is. Savra walks the walk and talks the talk, so playing Savra made me a prime target. I've moved on to a different B/G general since, and recently even cut Grave Pact from all my decks (besides Ghave, which is miserable to play against anyway). It's considered rude to answer a request for deck advice with this question, but with my history with this general I'm still going to ask it: why not pick a different general? You could slot something like Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest or Meren of Clan Nel Toth straight into the same list, and I suspect it'll be faster and better. And probably more fun.

Also, needs more Smothering Abomination.

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 Post subject: Re: Viperion's 32 deck challenge: BG/Golgari: Savra
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-18 6:55 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Oops on the Grave Titan, he's definitely out, not in. Good spotting you saw the deliberate error! *cough*

Yeah Grave Pact is a large part of what makes this deck slow, but my playgroup doesn't object to it as much as other playgroups do. They do see it as a must-kill but they don't see it as a funsuck, so I'm ok with it.

As for why Savra; I'm a massive fan of the original Ravnica, and so I tend to look there first when looking for 2-colour generals. Which is why Ghost Council, Tolsimir, Isperia and Savra are legends leading my decks, even though there are "better" options in those colours (some of them even from the same plane). Also, there are a few BG legends I absolutely hate for being pretty much impossible to do anything about (I have very bad memories of a particularly obnoxious Glissa, the Traitor deck that was in our playgroup a few years back, and Meren falls into the same category for me).

Mazirek should be in the deck although I don't want him as the General; when he's in play he may just accelerate the deck to a speed that actually finishes games in a timely manner :)

Also, you're 100% right about Smothering Abomination; it's in my Sek'Kuar deck but should probably go here as well.

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

"I'm happy to serve as a quote machine" - Sheldon


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 Post subject: Re: Viperion's 32 deck challenge: BG/Golgari: Savra
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-18 7:42 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
I can certainly see why you wouldn’t want a Meren deck. Anyway, I just came across this article mentioning Izoni and Savra. I like the black elves theme, and it has some good ideas: https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/stephenj ... ding-izoni

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 Post subject: Re: Viperion's 32 deck challenge: BG/Golgari: Savra
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-18 8:24 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Some good ideas in there (some of which I should have thought of before)

Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord could actually go in here since I'm not running his best bud Lord of Extinction (actually either of those would be good additions; but I don't want both of them in the same deck)

Evolutionary Leap is kind of cool although losing board presence to get a random creature to your hand isn't the best value in value town. Worth a think, but it's definitely not going to speed the deck up any. Then again again, having creatures in hand is good for Lotleth Troll.

Costly Plunder and/or Merciless Resolve seem good as one shots (I prefer the two-mana version to the three mana one, obv)

Poison-Tip Archer is interesting but I think I'll put it in my (not yet built) Damia deathtouch/poison deck instead

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

"I'm happy to serve as a quote machine" - Sheldon


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 Post subject: Re: Viperion's 32 deck challenge: BG/Golgari: Savra
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-18 1:56 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
Man, blast from the past... Savra was the second or third edh deck I built. If I can be allowed to reminisce from my rocking chair, back in those days you only had 4 options for Golgari commanders: Vhati il-Dal Iname as One, Savra, Queen of the Golgari, and Sisters of Stone Death. So Savra really seemed like the best of the bunch. Now there's 18 Golgari legends, and most of 'em are just more powerful.

If you want to stick with Savra, there's a few things I would do. First, even if you don't want 'em as your general, you can still pack the other relevant legends like Izoni and Meren in the deck; they work with your theme and they're green black critters to sac.

I'd also go nuts with ramp creatures... every 1cc dork, and every 3cc land-ramper. They speed you up, and you can sac 'em later.

Llanowar Elves
Arbor Elf
Elvish Mystic
Fyndhorn Elves
Elves of the Deep Shadow
Boreal Druid
Birds of Paradise
Deathrite Shaman
Wood Elves
Farhaven Elf
Yavimaya Dryad

Second, remember the wisdom of the mighty Bolas: the best minions have minions of their own. Max out on as many value creatures that also make tokens of their own:

Deranged Hermit
Caller of the Claw
Wolfbriar Elemental
Ishkanah, Grafwidow

If you can swing the mana, Hornet Queen, Avenger of Zendikar, Abhorrent Overlord, and I would've kept the Grave Titan.

You also need some repeatable sac-outlets to keep your Savra machine running. Ashnod's Altar is great, but there's some other A-list ones to make the deck much more powerful:
Birthing Pod
Greater Good
Sadistic Hypnotist
Attrition
Phyrexian Plaguelord
Altar of Dementia (use on yourself early on, then you might have chance for mill-win late)

I would also run more dredge or dredge-ish kinds of cards. Golgari Thug and Stinkweed Imp are the two best dredge cards here, and Turntimber Sower's pretty dang good too.

Last, I'd look for more incidental cards that give you effects you needed anyway while also getting you some extra gravy. You need GY hate anyway... why not run Necrogenesis and Night Soil? You need lands, why not add Westvale Abbey and High Market? Squeezing in that extra little bit of synergy is what really makes generals like Savra work.

tl;dr needs more mana and fewer one-shot effects

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 Post subject: Re: Viperion's 32 deck challenge: BG/Golgari: Savra
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-19 8:56 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Graveyard fillin' goodness from Guilds of Ravnica:

Doom Whisperer
Mausoleum Secrets (maybe)
Necrotic Wound
Plaguecrafter
Undercity Necrolisk
Hatchery Spider
Izoni, Thousand-Eyed
Molderhulk (maybe, no evasion)
Underrealm Lich

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

"I'm happy to serve as a quote machine" - Sheldon


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 Post subject: Re: Viperion's 32 deck challenge: BG/Golgari: Savra
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-05 9:36 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Cards I'm considering:

Yahenni, Undying Partisan
Bontu the Glorified

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

"I'm happy to serve as a quote machine" - Sheldon


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 Post subject: Re: Viperion's 32 deck challenge: BG/Golgari: Savra
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-06 4:37 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
If you think Bontu is your thing, take a second look at Vampiric Rites. Unlike Bontu it actually draws you a card.

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"Our words are backed with OBLIVION STONE!"


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 Post subject: Re: Viperion's 32 deck challenge: BG/Golgari: Savra
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-06 8:34 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Bontu hurts your opponents and is an indestructible sac outlet though, both of which are pertty useful in this deck.

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"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

"I'm happy to serve as a quote machine" - Sheldon


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 Post subject: Re: Viperion's 32 deck challenge: BG/Golgari: Savra
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-06 9:57 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Realised I've never actually replied to this one:
Kemev wrote:
I'd also go nuts with ramp creatures... every 1cc dork, and every 3cc land-ramper. They speed you up, and you can sac 'em later.

Llanowar Elves
Arbor Elf
Elvish Mystic
Fyndhorn Elves
Elves of the Deep Shadow
Boreal Druid
Birds of Paradise
Deathrite Shaman
Wood Elves
Farhaven Elf
Yavimaya Dryad

Why? The curve on this deck isn't massive, and since all of these guys are Mono-G (Deathrite excepted) the only benefit I get from saccing them is gaining two life (depending on the sac outlet used, I suppose). Having said that Deathrite is cheaper than the last time I looked and should be in here - I'll add it in.

Quote:
Second, remember the wisdom of the mighty Bolas: the best minions have minions of their own. Max out on as many value creatures that also make tokens of their own:

Deranged Hermit
Caller of the Claw
Wolfbriar Elemental
Ishkanah, Grafwidow

Likewise these are all green creatures that make more green creatures (even Ishkanah makes green Spiders).

Although, Hermit Druid gives me an idea - cards with Echo have to be sacrificed if you don't pay the echo cost (they're not destroyed) so I might have a look around and see what good echo creatures there are in G/B :)

Quote:
If you can swing the mana, Hornet Queen, Avenger of Zendikar, Abhorrent Overlord, and I would've kept the Grave Titan.

These ones, I like better due to the number of tokens (and the usefulness of them, in Hornet Queen's case). I think you're right and should put Grave Titan back in.

Quote:
You also need some repeatable sac-outlets to keep your Savra machine running. Ashnod's Altar is great, but there's some other A-list ones to make the deck much more powerful:
Birthing Pod
Greater Good
Sadistic Hypnotist
Attrition
Phyrexian Plaguelord
Altar of Dementia (use on yourself early on, then you might have chance for mill-win late)

I do have quite a few repeatable sac outlets:
Dimir House Guard
Nantuko Husk
Ruthless Knave
Thoughtpicker Witch
Ashnod's Altar
Perilous Forays
Spawning Pit

But I do like your suggestions, aside from Attrition - I have to target a creature when I activate Attrition and if I have Savra on the battlefield when I do it (and am sacrificing a black creature) Savra's sacrifice ability goes on the stack above Attrition and they can just sac the creature I'm targeting. I guess if I sac a green creature Attrition works as intended.

Altar of Dementia is a great suggestion (pricier than I'd like, but not too bad) - will try and hunt one down. I only own one Birthing Pod and it's currently in Sek'Kuar; it does good things in there so I might leave it there.

Quote:
I would also run more dredge or dredge-ish kinds of cards. Golgari Thug and Stinkweed Imp are the two best dredge cards here, and Turntimber Sower's pretty dang good too.

Stinkweed Imp (and Life from the Loam, Dakmor Salvage, Shambling Shell, and Grave-Troll) are in here; I might put the Thug in and possibly Necroplasm (which is a card I always forget has dredge) as well.
Quote:
Last, I'd look for more incidental cards that give you effects you needed anyway while also getting you some extra gravy. You need GY hate anyway... why not run Necrogenesis and Night Soil? You need lands, why not add Westvale Abbey and High Market? Squeezing in that extra little bit of synergy is what really makes generals like Savra work.

High Market is already there - Westvale Abbey is a one-shot sac effect after which I lose both the land and the sac outlet (even if the creature it creates is pretty damn great). Both Necrogenesis and Night Soil were in the deck for a long time and probably should be put back in.

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

"I'm happy to serve as a quote machine" - Sheldon


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 Post subject: Re: Viperion's 32 deck challenge: BG/Golgari: Savra
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-06 2:28 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Updated 7/10/18:

-1 Death's Shadow
-1 Rite of Consumption
+1 Catacomb Sifter
+1 Smothering Abomination

Found a Sifter and Abomination laying around; shoved 'em in

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

"I'm happy to serve as a quote machine" - Sheldon


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 Post subject: Re: Viperion's 32 deck challenge: BG/Golgari: Savra
AgePosted: 2018-Oct-07 9:24 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Demon of Dark Schemes seems real good in here too - I'm usually pretty meh about energy tokens, but this guy (and this deck) should be able to fuel himself pretty easily

Also Hedonist's Trove - exile their graveyard and I get to cast those cards? Holy hell (yeah it costs seven, but speed isn't an issue in this deck)

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

"I'm happy to serve as a quote machine" - Sheldon


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