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 Post subject: Ghave, Guru of Dumb-- needs something...
AgePosted: 2012-Jan-19 8:33 am 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-03 10:07 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Milwaukee, WI
I dunno, guys. With all the goodies B/W is getting in DKA, and me not wanting to play a Teysa or Ghost Council deck, Ghave seemed like the obvious choice for my next deck... but something is missing. I think the list below is trying to pull in too many directions, which may be why I'm so uneasy about it. I'll need to test on Cockatrice or something, but suggestions on making this better/more fun are appreciated.


GENERAL
1 Ghave, Guru of Spores

STUPID RECURSION ENGINE CARDS
2 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
3 Cauldron of Souls
4 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
5 Phyrexian Altar
6 Ashnod's Altar
7 Nim Deathmantle
8 Altar of Dementia

ABUSING STUPID RECURSION ENGINE CARDS
9 Woodfall Primus
10 Puppeteer Clique
11 Geralf's Messenger
12 Juniper Order Ranger
13 Bitter Ordeal
14 Sun Titan
15 Eternal Witness

ABUSING OODLES OF TOKENS (Who die a lot)
16 Nemata, Grove Guardian
17 Doubling Season
18 Parallel Lives
19 Utopia Mycon
20 Aura Shards
21 Grave Pact
23 Mirari's Wake
24 Attrition
25 Fecundity
26 Butcher of Malakir
27 Mentor of the Meek
28 Skullclamp

BIG MANA/RAMPING
29 Primeval Titan
30 Fertilid
31 Sakura-Tribe Elder
32 Oracle of Mul Daya
33 Cultivate
34 Kodama's Reach
35 Mana Reflection
36 Sol Ring
37 Golgari Signet
38 Orzhov Signet

SUPERFRIENDS
39 Ajani Goldmane
40 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
41 Elspeth Tirel
42 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
43 Garruk Wildspeaker
44 Garruk Relentless

FINDING STUFF
45 Survival of the Fittest
46 Congregation at Dawn
47 Pattern of Rebirth
48 Vampiric Tutor
49 Demonic Tutor
50 Diabolic Intent
51 Primal Command

KILLING STUFF, INCLUDING THAT GODDAMN CAGE
22 Swords to Plowshares
52 Beast Within
53 Maelstrom Pulse
54 Pernicious Deed
55 Fracturing Gust
56 Phyrexian Rebirth
57 Austere Command
58 Putrefy
59 Qasali Pridemage
60 Nihil Spellbomb
61 Vindicate

MISCELLANEOUS BEATINGS
62 Vigor
63 Exsanguinate
64 Mycoloth
65 Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter

LAND
66 Cabal Coffers
67 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
68 Command Tower
69 Bojuka Bog
70 Godless Shrine
71 Overgrown Tomb
72 Temple Garden
73 Isolated Chapel
74 Woodland Cemetery
75 Sunpetal Grove
76 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
77 Vault of the Archangel
78 Marsh Flats
79 Verdant Catacomb
80 Gaea's Cradle
81 Godless Shrine
82 Volrath's Stronghold
83 Krosan Verge
84 Reflecting Pool
85 Deserted Temple
86 Vesuva
87 Tectonic Edge
88 Ghost Quarter
89 Golgari Rot Farm
90 Selesnya Sanctuary
91 Phyrexian Tower
92-94 Forest
95-97 Swamp
98-100 Plains

I was going to list some of the key interactions down here, but then I realized that the dumbness is mostly apparent. Do note that all else being equal I am going to try to win with Bitter Ordeal, as that card does not get as much love as I think it deserves (probably because it is not as GOOD as I think it is. Anyway...).

Updated with ch-ch-ch-changes:

-Mangara of Corondor +Nemata, Grove Guardian: More on theme anyway.
-Glare of Subdual +Utopia Mycon: I don't want to tap their guys down, I want to run them over! This guy is another free sac outlet for tokens and some ramp, though possibly I should be running the card draw one instead. We'll see how he plays.
-Martyr's Bond +Swords to Plowshares: Oh right, I can play this card in this deck. Obvious miss is obvious. I may put Martyr's Bond back in later but this seems likely to be more relevant more of the time.
-Genesis Wave +Vindicate: Boring card is boring (and possibly not as good for me as it could be in a dedicated stompy deck, since a lot of my deck is dependent on tokens). Vindicate, as noted below, is a card that I missed because I'm not used to this color combo and forgot it existed.
-Avenger of Zendikar +Mycoloth: Avenger is usually going to be better, but like Genesis Wave is sort of boring. Mycoloth, by contrast, is both on theme AND synergistic, to the point where I wonder why I missed it in the first place. RAAR I EAT TOKENS AND POOP OUT MORE OF THEM RAAR
-Orzhov Basilica +Phyrexian Tower: Never a bad idea to have another sac outlet on hand in case of shenanigans, especially one that gives me mana. I do wonder if Miren might be better in this role because it scales and its product is never wasted like the Tower's might be, but I don't like the 3 in that activation cost. (I wish the newly-spoiled BG utility land from DKA wasn't didn't have a 2BG activation cost because it would be a natural for this slot... Alas.)

_________________
Currently Playing:
Animar: All-Creatures, All The Time (Silly stompy-aggro)
Sen Triplets: Robots! (Proliferate Control/Combo)
Sedris, the Traitor King: BRAAAAAINS (Zombie Tribal)
Zedruu, Group Pickpocket (Pillowfort Test of Endurance deck. You heard right)
Ghave, Guru of Dumb (Token Control)

gaijinguy wrote:
As for blue- being boring/infuriating by crushing everyone else's fun until it assembles a cheeseball combo is pretty much what it DOES.


Last edited by herodotusjr on 2012-Jan-20 9:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ghave, Guru of Dumb-- needs something...
AgePosted: 2012-Jan-19 5:11 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
I like it. I don't really feel like it goes too many directions at once. I notice a lack of Ashnod's Altar type stuff - is this a conscious decision? There were some fungi in Time Spiral block that let you sac saprolings for all sorts of profit - including mana and -1/-1 effects, not to mention card draw.
herodotusjr wrote:
I was going to list some of the key interactions down here, but then I realized that the dumbness is mostly apparent. Do note that all else being equal I am going to try to win with Bitter Ordeal, as that card does not get as much love as I think it deserves (probably because it is not as GOOD as I think it is. Anyway...).

I have a janky deck (used to be extended legal) I called "The Shuffler" that killed with Psychogenic Probe and Bitter Ordeal.
4 Psychogenic Probe
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Lantern of Insight
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Bitter Ordeal
and lots of tutors, disruption (EXTIRPATE!) and sweepers to keep me alive. I could go of pretty consistently by turn 4, though it had problems with counterspells once people had seen my shenanigans once.

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Ghave, Guru of Dumb-- needs something...
AgePosted: 2012-Jan-19 5:32 pm 

Joined: 2011-Jun-20 10:49 am
Age: Wyvern
hmmm, you seem to be a little light on targeted removal. In particular, why are you running the pridemage over krosan grip?

Also, for pete's sake, where is vindicate?

Other than the obvious changes to ramp/mana base that comes with a $500 investment (duals and then natures lore/three visits/skyshroud) its a pretty tight list.


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 Post subject: Re: Ghave, Guru of Dumb-- needs something...
AgePosted: 2012-Jan-20 9:26 am 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-03 10:07 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Vindicate! Of course. This is only my second deck playing both B/W, and the other one is a highly thematic artifact/proliferate build, so it hadn't even occurred to me as a staple in those colors. Added. As for Pridemage over Grip, that's mostly a matter of Pridemage's increased shenanigans capability with Mikaeus/Cauldron/Sun Titan, though admittedly with Aura Shards it's probably not AS important to have reusability in my Artifact/Enchantment hate. We'll see how it goes.

Sid the Chicken wrote:
I like it. I don't really feel like it goes too many directions at once. I notice a lack of Ashnod's Altar type stuff - is this a conscious decision? There were some fungi in Time Spiral block that let you sac saprolings for all sorts of profit - including mana and -1/-1 effects, not to mention card draw.


Yeah, I was a bit concerned about being sac-outlet light... My problem was that I couldn't find any of my usual outlets that were a) repeatable b) cheap or free c) good enough to have a meaningful effect on the board. I admit that I didn't think to search on "Sacrifice a Saproling", which brings up some more useful possibilities (Nemata, for example... how did I miss that guy? Wow.) A lot of this deck is dependent on Ghave actually being available, which is why I have all the tutors in case some smartass decides (probably rightfully so) to tuck him, so having additional creature-eating capability is probably useful.

Sid the Chicken wrote:
I have a janky deck (used to be extended legal) I called "The Shuffler" that killed with Psychogenic Probe and Bitter Ordeal.


Superb. I would not be sad at all to lose to that deck, though my poor cards/sleeves might.

_________________
Currently Playing:
Animar: All-Creatures, All The Time (Silly stompy-aggro)
Sen Triplets: Robots! (Proliferate Control/Combo)
Sedris, the Traitor King: BRAAAAAINS (Zombie Tribal)
Zedruu, Group Pickpocket (Pillowfort Test of Endurance deck. You heard right)
Ghave, Guru of Dumb (Token Control)

gaijinguy wrote:
As for blue- being boring/infuriating by crushing everyone else's fun until it assembles a cheeseball combo is pretty much what it DOES.


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