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 Post subject: Kaalia of the pillowfort
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-13 1:17 pm 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
Well, I am here again, I have been playing Kaalia for a year now, I 1v1 its nuts but in multi I have 0% winrate in 4 ppl table and a low winrate in 3ppl table.

I am trying a new approach to the deck and I want to know your insights.

Challenges to solve:

1. My playgroup focus on me since I am shuffling Kaalia, one of the players has actually said that every time I polay Kaalia he will be focusing all his attacks at me from turn zero so it is not a perception.

2. We 'agreed' not play fast combos, so a deck can have some kind of combo but cannot be built only to go fo the combo (I am not interested either in mardu combo anyway)

Because of point No. 1 this is what happens most of the time.

a. At turn 3-4 I start getting attacked by each player (Unless someone is in a very fast aggro deck the first attack wont came up until T3)

b. If I have the mana to cast Kaalia everyone will save the mana and answers for her to counter/kill/control even if there are 5 8/8 dinosaurs in the table.

So, my very first challenge seems to be surviving the early focus, in that case I added Ghostly Prison, Windborn muse, No mercy and Magus of the moat (Cheaper version of moat)

I put some early creatures like Baneslayer angel and Bloodgift demon for utility and survival , because I am the focus of every single attack I have Blinding angel to at least be able to skip one of my opponents.

Because of point B, I need to prevent or punish people for playing in my turn so I have Defense grid and Price of glory to make them think twice, I also have Grand abolisher.

Because of point B is rarely the occasion of me casting Kaalia freely and attacking, people saves their reponses and mana for her, so I want two things now, I want for my opponents to have no lands and no hand. For those purposes I have Sire of insanity and Oppression and because lands are silly I also have Desolation.

Untapping more than 2 lands a turn is just to OP for our opponents so lets remember the Starks and play Winter orb

Because creatures attacking us are worthless I have Damnation and Wrath of god, just 2 boardwipes yes.

Kaalia wants to see all the world burn, so I packed Armageddon , catastrophe and Cataclysm (if I ever get a ravages of war it will be swapped for this) also our opponents does not need those mana rocks, so I have also a Vandablast

Because we do want to play lands I have Crucible of worlds

For spot removal I have, Return to dust, Path to exile, Swords to plowshares, Vindicate and wear/tear.

We need some counterspells so I have Apostle's blessing and faith's shield to help save our people dodge those nasty removals, I also have Silence because it works as a preemptive counterspell, if I want to cast a geddon then I can spare the extra mana to shut down the answers

For protection I packed 2 pair of boots (Swiftfoot boots and lighning greaves) and a Whispersilk cloack

Kaalia likes to feel pretty, so I have a Quicksilver amulet just for her, cheating our stuff for 4 mana, not that bad anyway

I need cards, I am not in blue, but we have some options read the bones, dragon mage, harvester of souls, bloodgift demon, phyrexian arena, Solemn simulacrum (I count him as a rock and a card draw). Yes Necropotence is missing I have the card, but by turn 6-8 I am at 10 life because of the aggro I get so in this very first build of 'pillowfort Kaalia' I will try it without it, then if I see my plan worked and I can get to turn 6-9 with 15+ life then Ill add necropotence

I have 12 mana rocks (14 if I count solemn simulacrum and dark ritual as mana rocks) because I need to be able to ramp as hell, start hardcasting some dudes or wiping the world and having the mana to play my stuff

The big dudes:

Because at some point it will be time for Kaalia to get revenge this is my prime team:

Hellkite tyrant: or also know as 'All your base are belong to us'

Kokusho, the evening star: This card normaly is bad, but because is just cost 6 it is hardcastable, and if he dies to removal or blocking something important I will get 15 life gain while each my opponents loses 5, so... good deal.

Harvester of souls: Good blocker, and card draw

Sire of insanity: who needs cards? I am happy topdecking are you not? well, sorry then because for Kaalia is super important that she can attack and nobody cast any shennanigan.

Master of cruelties: Is a bad card for multiplayer, but one of my opponents hate this guy a lot, and is one of the reasons he focus on me, so I will play this guy and save it just for him.

Iona, shield of emeria: She is great, but I have never ever played her and have her last for an entire table turn, so unless your opponents are all playing a monocolored deck, the fear is not justifiable.

Rakdos the defiler: Annihilator 50%, yes please

Utvara hellkite: I know she is bad, but Kaalia is just fond of her, and I love to see her play with a couple dozen dragons

Steel hellkite: boardwipes, more boardwipes!!!

Gisela, blade of goldnight: Whats better than opponents taking damage? taking double damage, and whats better than that? well they taking double damage and us taking half damage off course

I will try her in my next EDH session, I would love to read your comments and toughs about this strategy or approach, will it work? what would you change? are those rocks enough? tha card draw can be better?


This is the complete decklist if you want to see it (there is alink to tappedout, is better there)
1x Apostle's Blessing
1x Arid Mesa
1x Armageddon
1x Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1x Balefire Dragon
1x Baneslayer Angel
1x Battlefield Forge
1x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Blinding Angel
1x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodgift Demon
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Boros Signet
1x Cataclysm
1x Catastrophe
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Caves of Koilos
1x Chrome Mox
1x City of Brass
1x Clifftop Retreat
1x Command Tower
1x Commander's Sphere
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Damnation
1x Dark Ritual
1x Defense Grid
1x Desolation
1x Dragon Mage
1x Dragon Tempest
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Earnest Fellowship
1x Faith's Shield
1x Faithless Looting
1x Ghostly Prison
1x Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1x Grand Abolisher
1x Hall of the Bandit Lord
1x Harvester of Souls
1x Hellkite Tyrant
1x Homeward Path
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Jeweled Amulet
1x Kaalia of the Vast
1x Kokusho, the Evening Star
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Lotus Petal
1x Magus of the Moat
1x Mana Vault
1x Master of Cruelties
1x Mimic Vat
1x Mother of Runes
2x Mountain
1x No Mercy
1x Oppression
1x Orzhov Signet
1x Path to Exile
1x Phyrexian Arena
8x Plains
1x Price of Glory
1x Quicksilver Amulet
1x Rakdos Carnarium
1x Rakdos Signet
1x Rakdos the Defiler
1x Read the Bones
1x Return to Dust
1x Reverberate
1x Rugged Prairie
1x Rune-Scarred Demon
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Silence
1x Sire Of Insanity
1x Sol Ring
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Sulfurous Springs
3x Swamp
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Talisman of Indulgence
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Thran Dynamo
1x Utvara Hellkite
1x Vandalblast
1x Vindicate
1x Wear / Tear
1x Whispersilk Cloak
1x Windborn Muse
1x Winter Orb
1x Wrath of God

[url="http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/kaalia-non-combo/"]Link to deck @ TappedOut.net[/url]


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 Post subject: Re: Kaalia of the pillowfort
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-14 12:43 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
alexev wrote:
Kokusho, the evening star: This card normaly is bad
alexev wrote:
Utvara hellkite: I know she is bad
alexev wrote:
Iona, shield of emeria: She is great

These statements are all absurd, however this one;
alexev wrote:
Master of cruelties: Is a bad card for multiplayer, but one of my opponents hate this guy a lot, and is one of the reasons he focus on me, so I will play this guy and save it just for him.

... I don't even have the words.

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 Post subject: Re: Kaalia of the pillowfort
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-15 4:14 am 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
Sid the Chicken wrote:
alexev wrote:
Kokusho, the evening star: This card normaly is bad
alexev wrote:
Utvara hellkite: I know she is bad
alexev wrote:
Iona, shield of emeria: She is great

These statements are all absurd.


I am not saying those cards are bad 'per se' those cards are bad for Kaalia and ltet me tell you why.

In a 'normal' game I will use the trigger 2-3 times or maybe a 4th, it is not much, and for that I need to seize those scarce chances to drop something meaningful with an immediate impact on the board because I may not have another chance of using the trigger.

If I have Kokusho in my hand and Kaalia is not on the table I rather hardcast Kokusho every time, because I won't waste one of those scarce opportunits droping a 5/5 with has absolute no immediate value.

When Kaalia is on the battlefield, she is a target, I know she won't be there for long, she may not survive to attack the next turn so I need to get the most of every single attack she can do, So Kokusho is a bad target for her trigger, I use it because for 6cmc Is a blocker that can gain me some life and eat some removal but If my meta played otherwise I would't use it at all.

Utvara hellkite is bad for Kaalia (I love it and I play it anyway), because she also has no immediate impact or profit, because with Kaalia we skip the 'whenever attacks' clause then I don't get to put a 6/6 token until my next attack, so my opponents have an entire turn to prevent me from gaining an advantage and if that is the case I just wasted one of my 3-4 chances.

That is why the 'proper' Kaalia targets are creatures that have immediate impact and gains, like this

Hellkite tyrant: Kaalia attacks and if he hits then I can gain 1-X artifacts of the opponent so even if he does not survive to the next turn I get X artifacts so it is an immediate value that can get me on top.

Rakdos the defiler: He can just decimate the strongest player in the table and in the eventuality of being at 1v1 against the last is just a powerhouse.

Master of cruelties: Because my games are 3:1, being able to kill one opponent in a surprise attack makes the game from being 3v1 to 2v1 which is more accessible and because he is in the table the other opponents needs to deal with it so, they will be having a blocker or kill it (any of those situations are fine for me)

Avacyn, angel of hope: She makes all my stuff indestructible , If I can drop her and then Armageddon or Wrath of god then I came on top.

Balefire dragon: He is a boardwipe in a 6/6 stick, he can blast almost every single creature of
the opponent he hits every turn.

So as you see, those are the cards that Kaalia wants to drop with her trigger, not Kokusho, not serra angel.

If the dynamic of my games where different and I can cast Kaalia T4 and drop a creature every time I want, then my decklist would be diferent and will have other fun (but bad for the trigger) dragons like Bogardan Hellkite , Moonveil dragon, Mana-charged dragon and so.

But it is not the case


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 Post subject: Re: Kaalia of the pillowfort
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-15 6:50 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
You have once again missed the point. I don't think I can say any more without this thread devolving into an unnecessary flamewar, and so I will not.

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 Post subject: Re: Kaalia of the pillowfort
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-15 7:00 am 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
Sid the Chicken wrote:
You have once again missed the point. I don't think I can say any more without this thread devolving into an unnecessary flamewar, and so I will not.


I don't know why an answer needs to devolve in a flame-war, as long as we talk with respect and realize that everyone can have a different point of view that may not share with us, as long as we don't expect for people to see the 'right way' and act the way we want to, there won't be a problem.

Off course that if we want to 'impose' our view to others and we are unable to respect other points of view the conversation then can go wrong.

All that said, I know you don't like the strategy, I am not trying to convince you to 'play the way I do'

I am presenting a puzzle I am trying to solve, the puzzle is this

1. The deck has to win with huge beaters using Kaalia
2. The deck needs to be able to stand a 3v1 consistently
3. The deck can't be build with a combo in mid.

I am not interested in 'lowing my power level' I want to get it up and solve the problem I presented, if you feel that you don't want to help me solve the problem I am presented, that's ok, I can empathize with that.

If you think you have some insight that will help me solving that problem then I will be very grateful to read it as I have been all the time I red any other great tips I have received where sometimes pointed me to cards I didn't knew about it.

I repeat, the problem I am trying to solve is not being the focus, the problem I am trying to solve is the puzzle with 3 points in this answer.


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 Post subject: Re: Kaalia of the pillowfort
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-15 11:11 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Real question: why not just build a normal EDH deck, one that isn't explicitly designed to win 3v1, and just play with adjusted Archenemy rules? That seems far more enjoyable for literally everyone involved, and it also will prevent every single game from being you getting ganged up upon, since you all could take turns being the Archenemy.

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Current Generals:
III Omnath, Locus of Mana III Thada Adel, Acquisitor III Geth, Lord of the Vault III Eight-and-a-Half-Tails III Zo-Zu the Punisher III BruseIkra III Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis III Kess, Dissident Mage, III AkriSilas III Grenzo, Havoc Raiser III Ghalta, Primal Hunger III Ambassador Laquatus III Anax and Cymede III Sidisi, Brood Tyrant III Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest III Ghave, Guru of Spores III Zurgo Helmsmasher III Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder III


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 Post subject: Re: Kaalia of the pillowfort
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-16 1:46 am 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
Real question: why not just build a normal EDH deck, one that isn't explicitly designed to win 3v1, and just play with adjusted Archenemy rules? That seems far more enjoyable for literally everyone involved, and it also will prevent every single game from being you getting ganged up upon, since you all could take turns being the Archenemy.


I don't want to build a 3v1 100% winrate deck, I want to be able to build a consistent 3v1 Kaalia, consistent does not mean consistent winning, by consistence I mean that the deck would do this things

1. It won't allow to be deleted before turn 10 even if all the players gather together. and choose to go for the throat
2. At certain point of the game the deck will do his thing (beating faces with big creatures)
3. At that point of the game it should be hard (but possible) for the 3v1 to overcome
4. Will be able to do those 3 points every single game unless I have bad draws.

With Oloro, I kind of already accomplished that, so I know it is possible, I just not figured out yet how to do the same with Kaalia.

Do you have any input on how to do it? do you think the list I just posted will do the trick?


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 Post subject: Re: Kaalia of the pillowfort
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-16 3:21 am 
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Age: Elder Dragon
I honestly don't think its possible with Kaalia. Oloro has the advantage of better colors, a cushy backdrop of lifegain, and being a card advantage engine, while Kaalia is essentially a glorified ramp spell. Kaalia's biggest strength is the threat density she can create, which is fine in and of itself but also super fragile and easy to disrupt.

The thing that makes a lot of the "best" generals so good is that they fulfill a vital role, allowing you to saturate the remaining deck slots with cards that fulfill other functions. Oloro provides card advantage and safety, so you have more room to fill the deck with control cards and ramp and whatnot. Meren is one of the best reanimator engines there is, leaving the rest of the deck plenty of room to just try and get stuff in the graveyard. GW Selvala provides both mana and card draw, so you have more deck slots to devote to STAX.

Kaalia has none of those advantages. She actually requires you to give up deck slots for the creatures she wants to play, which makes it difficult to get any kind of consistency with what the rest of the deck wants to do. If you have a large enough Kaalia package to make her a strong threat, you'll be lacking one or more of the other necessary categories. If you try to shore up those weaknesses, Kaalia herself is going to be a dead card more often and you'd be better off with another Mardu general like Marchesa or Alesha.

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Current Generals:
III Omnath, Locus of Mana III Thada Adel, Acquisitor III Geth, Lord of the Vault III Eight-and-a-Half-Tails III Zo-Zu the Punisher III BruseIkra III Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis III Kess, Dissident Mage, III AkriSilas III Grenzo, Havoc Raiser III Ghalta, Primal Hunger III Ambassador Laquatus III Anax and Cymede III Sidisi, Brood Tyrant III Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest III Ghave, Guru of Spores III Zurgo Helmsmasher III Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder III


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 Post subject: Re: Kaalia of the pillowfort
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-16 4:42 am 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
Uktabi_Kong wrote:

Kaalia has none of those advantages. She actually requires you to give up deck slots for the creatures she wants to play, which makes it difficult to get any kind of consistency with what the rest of the deck wants to do. If you have a large enough Kaalia package to make her a strong threat, you'll be lacking one or more of the other necessary categories. If you try to shore up those weaknesses, Kaalia herself is going to be a dead card more often .


You are right and about
Quote:
Kaalia herself is going to be a dead card more often
I am fine with that now, if you read the actual list, most of my deck makes her a dead card, I will be hardcasting everything that costs 6cmc or less.

Only 10 of 99 cards are devoted for her trigger, then all the rest are now for the strategy survive (Magus of the moat, No mercy), gain board advantage (lots of mana rocks), blow the world (ARmageddon, Vandalblast) protect the queen (Faith's shield, Apostle's blessing, boots)

What I want to do now is surviving until I can blow the world, then cast Kaalia, attack and protect the gains.

I haven't tested this decklist yet, I don't know if its going to work, that's why I am looking for insights


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 Post subject: Re: Kaalia of the pillowfort
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-16 5:53 pm 
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Age: Dragon
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
I honestly don't think its possible with Kaalia. Oloro has the advantage of better colors, a cushy backdrop of lifegain, and being a card advantage engine, while Kaalia is essentially a glorified ramp spell. Kaalia's biggest strength is the threat density she can create, which is fine in and of itself but also super fragile and easy to disrupt.

The thing that makes a lot of the "best" generals so good is that they fulfill a vital role, allowing you to saturate the remaining deck slots with cards that fulfill other functions. Oloro provides card advantage and safety, so you have more room to fill the deck with control cards and ramp and whatnot. Meren is one of the best reanimator engines there is, leaving the rest of the deck plenty of room to just try and get stuff in the graveyard. GW Selvala provides both mana and card draw, so you have more deck slots to devote to STAX.

Kaalia has none of those advantages. She actually requires you to give up deck slots for the creatures she wants to play, which makes it difficult to get any kind of consistency with what the rest of the deck wants to do. If you have a large enough Kaalia package to make her a strong threat, you'll be lacking one or more of the other necessary categories. If you try to shore up those weaknesses, Kaalia herself is going to be a dead card more often and you'd be better off with another Mardu general like Marchesa or Alesha.



As I interpret it- it's more a matter of trying to play the game too safe. The sort of Stax effects he keeps combining seem to be mashed up, as opposed to building a particular position. Rather- I would think our OP is trying to avoid a Karametra, God of the Harvest,Sidri, Galvanic Genius, or other non-sluggish Stax deck- because the goal isn't to utilize Stax for advantage, so much as just as a disadvantage for the opposition (which is itself much, much weaker, and more irritating than oppressive.)

Like, a good stax deck has to built to pivot off a "type matters", or other types of "x matters" cards- and it requires cohesion and specificity of need for the tools inside of it. Like, it very specifically requires plays to work- because of just how often the format easily adopts to punishing "do nothing" cards in particularly brutal ways. With that in mind, Kaalia of the Vast is a general that gets buried for it's do nothing plays. Pillowforting doesn't compliment that- because often in a regular Kaalia deck, the sheer amount of instants and sorceries to disrupt and setup large, flashy moves with Kaalia require too much actual action to be exposing the bulk of your investments in filling the board with do nothings. Like, cards like Rule of Law absolutely slay in Kaalia because they make her harder to disrupt on the key turns. But the more of the cards that function like Rule of Law occupy the deck, the less action Kaalia actually has over a prolonged game- where in decks with Opalescence- you get to do something dramatic and cool and protect that those game-altaring do nothings, and try to get them to stack effects with compliment each other, before dropping a number of payoff cards to gift the game a satisfying conclusion, at a strategic position, often way before the game will lose interest.

I feel like pointing out the strategic disadvantage here is something I've really felt like needs to be reiterated- especially in regards to how high the value of every slot in an EDH deck is to it's cumulative function. Kaalia just wants to play lots of drawpower, and the cards that actually stop the opponents from eliminating you tend to be faster plays.

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 Post subject: Re: Kaalia of the pillowfort
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-17 2:03 am 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
Mr Degradation wrote:
Uktabi_Kong wrote:

Like, a good stax deck has to built to pivot off a "type matters", or other types of "x matters" cards- and it requires

I feel like pointing out the strategic disadvantage here is something I've really felt like needs to be reiterated- especially in regards to how high the value of every slot in an EDH deck is to it's cumulative function. Kaalia just wants to play lots of drawpower, and the cards that actually stop the opponents from eliminating you tend to be faster plays.


And how do you suggest I can accomplish that? I mean faster plays, I am running 14 mana rocks to try to able to hardcast for example (magical Christmas but..) Sire of insanity

I am asking because I sense that your answer could possible be the key to point me the right way of building what I want to build


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 Post subject: Re: Kaalia of the pillowfort
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-17 7:23 am 
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alexev wrote:
Mr Degradation wrote:
Uktabi_Kong wrote:

Like, a good stax deck has to built to pivot off a "type matters", or other types of "x matters" cards- and it requires

I feel like pointing out the strategic disadvantage here is something I've really felt like needs to be reiterated- especially in regards to how high the value of every slot in an EDH deck is to it's cumulative function. Kaalia just wants to play lots of drawpower, and the cards that actually stop the opponents from eliminating you tend to be faster plays.


And how do you suggest I can accomplish that? I mean faster plays, I am running 14 mana rocks to try to able to hardcast for example (magical Christmas but..) Sire of insanity

I am asking because I sense that your answer could possible be the key to point me the right way of building what I want to build


"Fast" and "Slow" in cardgames refer to the amount of the time you can play a card for value during the course of a game. In this model, the common colloquialism for instants and sorceries is "action"- as in the cards themselves function solely as a player action to improve their position. With a general like Kaalia, enchantments and artifacts that aren't like Phyrexian Arena or Quicksilver Amulet are slow cards (meaning you want to just play them out- where the faster a card is, the more advantageous it is to hold it until it makes the most critical difference it can-) that functionally spend turns not building towards the dramatic plays which can make Kaalia a thrilling experience.

With Kaalia, in particular- you desperately need to backup the threat the presents as a general- and often that involves playing fatties that double as removal to compliment RWB's already sweet removal options- and position yourself into absolute board domination (which is why she's such an effective table villain.) Even if you're packing Phyrexian Arena and Underworld Connections- you'll still find yourself wanting Painful Truths and Night's Whisper because the faster versions of the effect have a larger net effect exactly when you need it.

The last element of Kaalia that stax SEVERELY cuts into, is reanimation options- which naturally dovetails itself with Angels, Demons, and Dragons that effect the board on the way in. Many strong Kaalia decks use their fatties from hand to bait removal and protect the fatties that can outright swing the game by cheating them into play with Kaalia- ontop of looting abilities- to simply get more card selection. Lacking this card selection and tools like reanimator spells to further emphasize the power of your value fatties puts you at a severe disadvantage against anything that isn't trying to be aggressive- since they'll simply be able to out card-for-card you- even if you have things like Crawlspace, that only buy so much time. It's always disadvantageous to be protecting yourself, but not developing your total gameplan- because you're looking for the positions that give you the most advantage, and the ability to put yourself into those positions most often. Stax protects itself with artifacts and enchantments, and then tries to setup a play where they cash in on the non-creature cardtypes mattering to make a real play and finish the game- or carry a hyper-efficient beatstick like Geist of Saint Traft. Outside of that particular context, excessive board presence at the cost of action means that you get fewer meaningful choices as the game develops- something entirely undesirable for a strategy that wants to thrive in a prolonged game.

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 Post subject: Re: Kaalia of the pillowfort
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-18 12:58 am 

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Mr Degradation wrote:
"Fast" and "Slow" in cardgames refer to the amount of the time you can play a card for value during the course of a game. In this model, the common colloquialism for instants and sorceries is "action"- as in the cards themselves function solely as a player action to improve their position. With a general like Kaalia, enchantments and artifacts that aren't like Phyrexian Arena or Quicksilver Amulet are slow cards (meaning you want to just play them out- where the faster a card is, the more advantageous it is to hold it until it makes the most critical difference it can-) that functionally spend turns not building towards the dramatic plays which can make Kaalia a thrilling experience.

With Kaalia, in particular- you desperately need to backup the threat the presents as a general- and often that involves playing fatties that double as removal to compliment RWB's already sweet removal options- and position yourself into absolute board domination (which is why she's such an effective table villain.) Even if you're packing Phyrexian Arena and Underworld Connections- you'll still find yourself wanting Painful Truths and Night's Whisper because the faster versions of the effect have a larger net effect exactly when you need it.

The last element of Kaalia that stax SEVERELY cuts into, is reanimation options- which naturally dovetails itself with Angels, Demons, and Dragons that effect the board on the way in. Many strong Kaalia decks use their fatties from hand to bait removal and protect the fatties that can outright swing the game by cheating them into play with Kaalia- ontop of looting abilities- to simply get more card selection. Lacking this card selection and tools like reanimator spells to further emphasize the power of your value fatties puts you at a severe disadvantage against anything that isn't trying to be aggressive- since they'll simply be able to out card-for-card you- even if you have things like Crawlspace, that only buy so much time. It's always disadvantageous to be protecting yourself, but not developing your total gameplan- because you're looking for the positions that give you the most advantage, and the ability to put yourself into those positions most often. Stax protects itself with artifacts and enchantments, and then tries to setup a play where they cash in on the non-creature cardtypes mattering to make a real play and finish the game- or carry a hyper-efficient beatstick like Geist of Saint Traft. Outside of that particular context, excessive board presence at the cost of action means that you get fewer meaningful choices as the game develops- something entirely undesirable for a strategy that wants to thrive in a prolonged game.




I tried going 'the right way' with reanimate, Buried alive, entomb, animate dead, and a lot of reanimator.

It didn't went too well mainly because I feel I lacked the tools to manage the 3v1 situation,m is so hard for Kaalia to 'shut down' the threats.

With Oloro I can consistently draw more crads than my opponents togheter, and normally I can trade 1 card for a lot of them. so I am always came on top.

I was trying to do the same with Kaalia, I want to shut down their games against me and because of that I thought some pillowfort can do the trick.

But your words make sense, I will be analyzing the options, today I have some cards I didn't had in my first reanimator build so it may very well worth the try.

Thank you very much for the input


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 Post subject: Re: Kaalia of the pillowfort
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-18 3:03 am 
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I think you're missing Mr Degradation and I's point: what you're looking for simply isn't possible with Kaalia. You managed to pull it off with Oloro, because Oloro has the tools it needs to do so. Kaalia simply doesn't. If we were on a chess forum, this would be the equivalent of asking how to solve the "puzzle" of winning the game when each side only has a king and a knight. It's theoretically possible, but only if your opposition literally lets you do it.

She's an extremely powerful general but extremely fragile, making it hard to build her so she can both consistently be a threat while still doing things that every deck is supposed to do like draw cards, play removal, protect herself, etc. It's for that reason she's not particularly good in cEDH, and there she has the advantage of not being the archenemy. The only way Kaalia could possibly helm the type of deck you're looking for is if you build a deck that has nothing to do with her and use her as a red herring for whatever the "real" threat is, a trick that people will catch on to after at most two games.

EDIT: As I mentioned before, without even leaving the Mardu color scheme Queen Marchesa is one of the best possible generals you could have for such a deck, both mechanically and flavor-wise. She is an incredibly strong source of card advantage that basically begs for you to run "don't attack me" cards.

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 Post subject: Re: Kaalia of the pillowfort
AgePosted: 2018-Apr-18 4:06 am 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
I think you're missing Mr Degradation and I's point: what you're looking for simply isn't possible with Kaalia. You managed to pull it off with Oloro, because Oloro has the tools it needs to do so. Kaalia simply doesn't. If we were on a chess forum, this would be the equivalent of asking how to solve the "puzzle" of winning the game when each side only has a king and a knight. It's theoretically possible, but only if your opposition literally lets you do it.


EDIT: As I mentioned before, without even leaving the Mardu color scheme Queen Marchesa is one of the best possible generals you could have for such a deck, both mechanically and flavor-wise. She is an incredibly strong source of card advantage that basically begs for you to run "don't attack me" cards.


I think you are right, anyway I want to try to meker her work, so I think I will go with the advice or Mr. Degradation, I will build her again with faster cards, and reanimation package incuding cycling.

But I will have to 'drop' the non-combo part of the strategy, because I think that If I have to go that road, the only thing that can make her viable is getting some combos like worldgorger dragon and friends or kiki - resto.

Uktabi_Kong wrote:
I

EDIT: As I mentioned before, without even leaving the Mardu color scheme Queen Marchesa is one of the best possible generals you could have for such a deck, both mechanically and flavor-wise. She is an incredibly strong source of card advantage that basically begs for you to run "don't attack me" cards.


My next mardu will be Edgar markov full tribal vamps, I already lerned with Oloro that I want a general that can give some advantage from outside the game


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