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 Post subject: I need help cutting cards from an Oloro deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-06 3:33 am 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
Well after a year of struggling with the paranoia that Kaalia of the vasthas impregnated in my playgroup I decided to build another deck.

The goal of my new deck is to durdle my way to the victory triying to avoid too much Stax unless necesary, playing "safe" being invisible to the table, developing my gameplan and winning with Aetherflux reservoir or Sanguine bond, or some 4/4 tokens,debt to the deathlessand things like that.

I play things likeGhostly PrisonandPropaganda to avoid attacks, Aurification(I dont have it yet) to punish attacks against me, a lot of boardwipes to use only if I am getting focused, a couple counterspells like counterspell,cryptic command, swan song to prevent weaird stuff from happening

I will also playpravh, spires of progress , solitary confinment,khor havenandrighteous aura to prevent commander damage.

I play last saturday with a similar list like this https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/oloro-non-combo-durdle/ (this is my actual modified list, not the one I played las saturday)

I went very well, I won 1 and lost 3, 2 of them to commander damage, I like how the deck performed, I missed somethings those games (commander damage prevention, a couple of more wraths and counters) and I did not miss somethings I thought would be cool but they were not (serra ascendant,divinity of pride, some 0cmc mana rocks andmana vault,leyline of anticipation, kismet, etc.)

From my las game I added Snapcaster mage,cryptic command, return to dust, prav and aetherizeand terminus, but I think there are still a few pieces missing.

I want to addcrested sunmare, solitary confinment,khor haven, righteous aura,test of endurance, exquisite blood, aetherflux reservoir, well of lost dreams, lim-dus vault, no mercy,torment of hailfire and aurification.
My canditate cards to switch for that list are serra ascendant, divinity of pride, bitterblossom, leyline of anticipation, elixir of inmortality, sphere of safety and propaganda (people actually pay the cost of attacking me and sphere of safety is a 5cmc)

But I need more slots for the cards I want in, so I am asking for suggestions about that, wich cards should I cut to add the ones I want?


Here is the decklist
1x Academy Ruins
1x AEtherize
1x Alhammarret's Archive
1x Ancient Den
1x Angelic Accord
1x Anguished Unmaking
1x Arcane Sanctum
1x Armageddon
1x Azorius Signet
1x Bitterblossom
1x Blind Obedience
1x Boon Reflection
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Caves of Koilos
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x Chrome Mox
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Counterspell
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Cryptic Command
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Damnation
1x Debt to the Deathless
1x Dimir Keyrune
1x Dimir Signet
1x Disallow
1x Divinity of Pride
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Elixir of Immortality
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Fumigate
1x Ghostly Prison
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Glacial Fortress
1x Godhead of Awe
1x Godless Shrine
1x Hallowed Burial
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Humility
1x Hushwing Gryff
3x Island
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Karlov of the Ghost Council
1x Leyline of Anticipation
1x Luminarch Ascension
1x Marsh Flats
1x Maze of Ith
1x Merciless Eviction
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Necropotence
1x Negate
1x Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
1x Orzhov Signet
1x Path to Exile
1x Phyrexian Arena
4x Plains
1x Polluted Delta
1x Prahv, Spires of Order
1x Prairie Stream
1x Propaganda
1x Reliquary Tower
1x return to Dust
1x Rhystic Study
1x rule of Law
1x Sanguine Bond
1x Scoured Barrens
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Serra Ascendant
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Sol Ring
1x Sphere of Safety
1x Spreading Plague
1x Strip Mine
1x Sun Droplet
1x Supreme Verdict
3x Swamp
1x Swan Song
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Talisman of Dominance
1x Talisman of Progress
1x Temple of Enlightenment
1x Terminus
1x Thought Vessel
1x Tolaria West
1x Underground River
1x Utter End
1x Vault of Whispers
1x Venser's Journal
1x Watery Grave
1x Wrath of God




Thanks a lot in advance


Last edited by alexev on 2018-Mar-06 4:19 am, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I need help cutting cards from an Oloro deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-06 3:59 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I think Godhead of Awe and Humility will get you a lot of hate, people do not like paying 4WW for a 1/1 do nothing.

Necropotence is really good at filling your hand and looking for a combo, which will also draw you hate, since you are gaining life every turn too.

Armageddon without a way to end the game quickly will also make people focus you for games (if they ever play with you again).

Also, if you want more people to look at your deck and suggest cuts etc. you might want to put it in your post (preferably sorted, with card tags and in a spoiler.)

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 Post subject: Re: I need help cutting cards from an Oloro deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-06 4:08 am 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
Inkeyes22 wrote:
I think Godhead of Awe and Humility will get you a lot of hate, people do not like paying 4WW for a 1/1 do nothing.

Necropotence is really good at filling your hand and looking for a combo, which will also draw you hate, since you are gaining life every turn too.

Armageddon without a way to end the game quickly will also make people focus you for games (if they ever play with you again).

Also, if you want more people to look at your deck and suggest cuts etc. you might want to put it in your post (preferably sorted, with card tags and in a spoiler.)



Godhead of awe is a posible cut because the other creatures does not loose the abilities and they are just 1/1, humility is not because is the only way I can deal with some annoying stuf like Narset, englightened master, marsil , jeleeva and a lot of OP stuff.

If there are not such commanders in the table and they are not attacking me then I wont use it (nor a board wipe)

Geddon is a posible cut and I will considered it because as you say, I do not have a "win fast" option so maybe is not worth the slot.

Necropotence is THE card Ill never cut in any deck that has black, being able to draw 50 cards and gain 50 life with venser's journal and doing 50 damage with sanguine bond is priceless and is basically one of my wincons.

Not only for that, maybe I just need an aetherizeto survive the next atack and I need to digg in my library, so necropotence is the last I ll cut

I will be adding the decklist in the main topic then


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 Post subject: Re: I need help cutting cards from an Oloro deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-06 10:41 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Potential cuts I see, purely from the perspective of power level:
Bitterblossom is a great card if you're running aggro, Stax, or creature-based shenanigans. You are running none of the above.
Chrome Mox: I generally don't think this card is worth it in this deck. Oloro isn't exactly the type of general that has an immediate impact on the board that warrants him coming out as early as possible. I also tend not to like Chrome Mox or any of its brethren unless they're all in the deck and you can consistently get at least one in your opening hand. It's like a 60 card deck running just one copy of Llanowar Elves.
Ancient Den, Vault of Whispers: I don't see any artifact synergy aside from Enlightened Tutor, so to me they just look like extra targets for Vandalblast.
Crucible of Worlds: Unless land destruction is really common in your meta, I'm not seeing the point of this. It synergizes with only the fetchlands, Glacial Chasm, and Geddon.
Dimir Keyrune: Your deck doesn't win by attacking with creatures, so I think a Darksteel Ingot or Commander's Sphere is a strict upgrade.
Divinity of Pride: You said why yourself
Scoured Barrens: When you're already gaining so much life the 1 life from this card doesn't do much. You'd be better off with the BW Temple.
Serra Ascendant: You said yourself why
Sun Droplet: Maybe if your deck had more Karlov-type effects this would be worth it. As is, any other lifegain would be better.

I'd also suggest to abuse the heck out of black's pay-life-to-draw cards schitck. You've already got Necro and Arena, but you could also throw in Bloodgift Demon, Dark Tutelage, Sign in Blood, Night's Whisper, Read the Bones, Ambition's Cost, or if you've got money to spend Dark Confidant.

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Current Generals:
III Omnath, Locus of Mana III Thada Adel, Acquisitor III Geth, Lord of the Vault III Eight-and-a-Half-Tails III Zo-Zu the Punisher III BruseIkra III Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis III Kess, Dissident Mage, III AkriSilas III Grenzo, Havoc Raiser III Ghalta, Primal Hunger III Ambassador Laquatus III Anax and Cymede III Sidisi, Brood Tyrant III Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest III Ghave, Guru of Spores III Zurgo Helmsmasher III Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder III


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 Post subject: Re: I need help cutting cards from an Oloro deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-06 10:29 pm 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
Potential cuts I see, purely from the perspective of power level:
Bitterblossom is a great card if you're running aggro, Stax, or creature-based shenanigans. You are running none of the above.
Chrome Mox: I generally don't think this card is worth it in this deck. Oloro isn't exactly the type of general that has an immediate impact on the board that warrants him coming out as early as possible. I also tend not to like Chrome Mox or any of its brethren unless they're all in the deck and you can consistently get at least one in your opening hand. It's like a 60 card deck running just one copy of Llanowar Elves.
Ancient Den, Vault of Whispers: I don't see any artifact synergy aside from Enlightened Tutor, so to me they just look like extra targets for Vandalblast.
Crucible of Worlds: Unless land destruction is really common in your meta, I'm not seeing the point of this. It synergizes with only the fetchlands, Glacial Chasm, and Geddon.
[.


You are right about the artifact lands, they will be replaced for toher lands.

Sun droplet has fun interactions with Crested sunmare wich is one of the cards I want in, the horse does not care about how much life you won in the turn, so if I am able to gain 1 life every turn (my opponents turn) I will be able to get a 5/5 indestructible horse for free. but maybe is not worth it, Ill need to think about it but for now I will let sun droplet in the low priority cut.

You are also right about chrome mox, sometimes I have it in my hand and I dont really want to play it because I dont want to exile a thing in my hand. I was hoping that the mox could help me a T1 luminarch ascension o something crazy but rarely happend, he can go too.

Crucible of Worlds: is one of my favourite cards, recurring fetchs is awesome and even more if you have sensei's divining top in play, also everyone (including me) runs a copy of strip mine or other LD effect (like avalanche raiders in alesha or just vindycate) so I can get back some utility lands if destroyed.

I know the card is way better if I am the one playing a lot of MLD or my playgroup is, so maybe if I am one card short in my cutoff list she will be the candidate to go away

Dimir keyrune is there to block in case of need or to attack planeswalker preventing the ulti, it is unblockable after all, I would not put it if not, I think 2cmc is the limit for my mana rocks unless they give me real extra value such as chromatic lantern, I will considering cutting it too but probably wont be replaced for another mana rock.


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 Post subject: Re: I need help cutting cards from an Oloro deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-07 5:12 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Well, now I feel stupid because I’ve had Sun Droplet in my own Zo-Zu deck for almost 2 years and never realized it triggers every upkeep. So yeah, it’s a lot better in this deck than I thought.

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Current Generals:
III Omnath, Locus of Mana III Thada Adel, Acquisitor III Geth, Lord of the Vault III Eight-and-a-Half-Tails III Zo-Zu the Punisher III BruseIkra III Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis III Kess, Dissident Mage, III AkriSilas III Grenzo, Havoc Raiser III Ghalta, Primal Hunger III Ambassador Laquatus III Anax and Cymede III Sidisi, Brood Tyrant III Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest III Ghave, Guru of Spores III Zurgo Helmsmasher III Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder III


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 Post subject: Re: I need help cutting cards from an Oloro deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-08 1:22 am 

Joined: 2017-Oct-19 12:02 am
Age: Drake
I got some sweet aditions that Ill try

Well of lost dreams : draws at least 2 crads each turn for 2 mana, not that bad
Aurification: Punishing people for attacking the wrong player ;)
No mercy : Punishing people harder for atacking the wrong player
Righteous aura : pay 1 and 2 life, preventing all damacge from a source (does not target so I surpases hexproof or shroud)
Delaying shield : prevent all damage until next upkeep, good to avoid commander damage
Solemnity: fun interactions with teh shield card of above, also fun withGlacial chasm
Curse of verbosity and curse of disturbance : Rewarding people for attaking the right player
Karmic Justice: Punishing people for destroying my stuff
Solitary confinment: If I have in the table Necropotence and Vensers journal then is pretty much holydas for Oloro
Aetherlux reservoir: paying 50 life for 50 damage, OP easly abused by Necropotence+ Vensers Journalor by Exquisite blood

One card I think Ill cut is Angelic accord , 4 life a turn in My turn is feasible (but not always) and 4 life gain in oponents turns are not unless I have a good setup (Exquisite blood) so i may cut it off, in late If I am 1v1 against my las opponente the accord is good, I won't need more than 1 4/4 a turn, but I think that early game is just bad


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 Post subject: Re: I need help cutting cards from an Oloro deck
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-08 3:44 am 
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Joined: 2017-Mar-11 6:43 am
Age: Dragon
Honestly, I think you need more ways to establish Sanguine Bond + Drain as the win condition. Rather, the best direction for this deck would be a "Doomsday Spell" victory- adding modular drain tricks over the weaker removal- which also means that you want a more explosive manabase.

The biggest issue with decks like this, is that if your opponents are also playing big spells, your glut of removal makes your strategy excessively easy to shut down (where you'd often just make better neutral plays- developing extra mana sources or value-cranks.) As for cuts, I would immediately go with the Prisons, you don't need them with the life-padding, they don't stop combos, and you don't have Opalescence, Starfield of Nyx, or any other particularly powerful way to use them. It'd be far better to just punish your opponents for attacking you with blowout spells like Comeuppance.

Pristine Talisman, Thran Dynamo, Crypt Ghast and Basalt Monolith come to mind for better manaflow. Martyr of Sands is one of the most explosive Sanguine Bond enablers available- and in your color combination- it's extraordinarily easy to recur. It really isn't hard to make a deck like this a good combination of social and powerful- so long it keeps the game exciting. So, what I'm proposing, more or less involves playing the best versions of each effect, relative to the strategy- as opposed to excessive amounts of trashier board wipes and prisons that don't do anything.

With all of that in mind, the list I would suggest would look something like this...

Oloro, Ageless Ascetic

38 Lands

Sol Ring
Talisman of Progress
Talisman of Dominance
Dimir Signet
Orzhov Signet
Azorius Signet
Thought Vessel
Pristine Talisman
Basalt Monolith
Thran Dynamo
High Tide

Austere Command
Cyclonic Rift
Comeuppance
Supreme Verdict
Toxic Deluge
Merciless Eviction

Vindicate
Swords to Plowshares
Path to Exile
Chain of Vapor
Anguished Unmaking
Azorius Charm
Esper Charm
Mortify

Swan Song
Remand
Cryptic Command
Ojutai's Command

Sensei's Divining Top
Elixir of Immortality
Blind Obedience
Aura of Silence
Bitterblossom
Necropotence
Phyrexian Arena

Sanguine Bond
Vizkopa Guildmage

Debt to the Deathless
Exsanguinate
Profane Command
Aetherflux Reservoir
Kokusho, the Evening Star

Boon Reflection
Alhammarret's Archive
Drogskol Reaver
Crypt Ghast
Trinket Mage
Snapcaster Mage
Teferi, Temporal Archmage

Martyr of Sands
Beacon of Immortality
Survival Cache
Sphinx's Revelation

Treasure Cruise
Strategic Planning
Deep Analysis
Painful Truths
Dig Through Time
Enlightened Tutor
Idyllic Tutor


You could also put Tendrils of Agony or Gray Merchant of Asphodel in there- but without Red or infinite mana combos, Storm isn't really a cool way to go- and 3 weighted symbols of the same type can really stress your mana- so Gary might be sweet with Necropotence, but just a dud in the deck overall (where Kokopuffs is reliable.) Pontiff of Blight is super good with Bitterblossom and drain strategies.

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