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 Post subject: Re: Potential watch cards?
AgePosted: 2010-Mar-22 10:23 am 
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Joined: 2009-Apr-16 9:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Regina, SK
Mylon wrote:
Mormir vig can make it show up regularly.
Yep, Momir Vig is good, but he's the problem card here. If you see Momir as a general, be ready with your Shocks! That guy needs to die ASAP.


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 Post subject: Re: Potential watch cards?
AgePosted: 2010-Mar-31 7:06 pm 

Joined: 2010-Jan-06 11:40 pm
Age: Drake
And how many kill cards should I spend killing Mormir by himself? I'd need about 20 kill cards to reliably kill him twice and delay the deck enough to get my own moving. But my decks are really designed for multiplayer, not 1 on 1, that's why they're so slow.


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 Post subject: Re: Potential watch cards?
AgePosted: 2010-Mar-31 7:29 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Apr-16 9:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Regina, SK
Mylon wrote:
And how many kill cards should I spend killing Mormir by himself? I'd need about 20 kill cards to reliably kill him twice and delay the deck enough to get my own moving. But my decks are really designed for multiplayer, not 1 on 1, that's why they're so slow.

Right, that's basically what I meant in my previous post:
Stardust wrote:
If you're playing 1v1 and don't have removal of some kind... well...

If you're playing 1v1 you need more removal for exactly this reason. Running 20 removal cards is not unreasonable in a duel. Just look at your typical aggro deck in Standard. Even though they're not playing "control", they've still got a solid quarter of their deck devoted to removal. EDH duels are no different.


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 Post subject: Re: Potential watch cards?
AgePosted: 2013-Aug-27 2:14 am 

Joined: 2012-Nov-16 2:29 pm
Age: Wyvern
IMO, the Council should be watching Sol Ring and Sensei's Divining Top.

Even if everyone's playing Sol Ring in their decks, the outcome of games swing tremendously in favor of the player who drew Sol Ring in their opener, regardless of strategy.

Sensei's Divining Top, another artifact that goes in all but the most aggressive decks, was a design mistake (color pie) that leads to incredibly boring, sluggish gameplay. If EDH is looking for randomness, interactivity, and memorable games, why is this card still in the format? I can't speak for others, but when I sit down for a casual, less-spiky game of magic, sitting idly by while my opponent tops after every draw step and shuffle is killing it for me.

Council - move the format past both these degenerate cards and be rewarded with EDH games that more closely align with your noble intentions for EDH gameplay.


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 Post subject: Re: Potential watch cards?
AgePosted: 2013-Aug-27 2:31 am 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
This area of the forum (and this thread in particular) are a bit out of date.

A couple years ago or so, some French guys (including KevinD I think) wrote a separate set of rules for 1v1 EDH, which became Duel Commander with its own website and ban list. They agreed with you that top and Sol Ring are no good in 1v1, so they are indeed banned.

Duel Commander doesn't seem to have caught on as much in the U.S., so a lot of groups are still trying to play 1v1 with the standard Commander banned list, which isn't great for 1v1 or 2HG play. If it's how you and your friends like to play (or if 1v1 Commander's supported by your LGS), definitely check out the Duel Commander website.

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 Post subject: Re: Potential watch cards?
AgePosted: 2013-Aug-27 2:39 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Sol Ring is sort of a sacred cow around here even though it is probably among the cards most often requested to be banned. As a guy with a 13 edh decks and 1 Sol Ring, I honestly don't it's as big a deal as a lot of people think it is.

Top is banned in Modern for the exact reason you mention: slowing games to a crawl. I'm actually not sure that reason doesn't apply to EDH. However, I don't know that public opinion is that Top is more disruption than fun, especially since many people just Top when they don't have priority and don't bother to actually pause the game while they do so. (That said, I think games overall would probably be better and faster without Top. Probably not to justify a relatively unpopular ban though.)

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 Post subject: Re: Potential watch cards?
AgePosted: 2013-Aug-27 4:32 am 
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Joined: 2008-Aug-15 9:31 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I remember reading about how to "politely use Top". The issue was that waiting until the end of turn of the last person on your right and then pausing the game to Top, while the right play, slowed the game down too much. What was suggested (I believe it was by BKM) was to use it during the other player's turns and not pause the game to do so. Then, if something happens afterward that would cause you to change your mind prior to the end of turn of the guy on your right, but you don't have mana to activate again, you redo it for free. After all, you're trying to do the table a favor by not pausing the game, and punishing players for doing so encourages slower games.

I pretty much feel this way about SDT and fetch lands.


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 Post subject: Re: Potential watch cards?
AgePosted: 2013-Aug-27 4:38 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
DONT PLAY TOP!

ITS BAD MAGIC JUJU!


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 Post subject: Re: Potential watch cards?
AgePosted: 2013-Aug-28 5:19 am 

Joined: 2012-Nov-16 2:29 pm
Age: Wyvern
Kemev wrote:
This area of the forum (and this thread in particular) are a bit out of date.

A couple years ago or so, some French guys (including KevinD I think) wrote a separate set of rules for 1v1 EDH, which became Duel Commander with its own website and ban list. They agreed with you that top and Sol Ring are no good in 1v1, so they are indeed banned.

Duel Commander doesn't seem to have caught on as much in the U.S., so a lot of groups are still trying to play 1v1 with the standard Commander banned list, which isn't great for 1v1 or 2HG play. If it's how you and your friends like to play (or if 1v1 Commander's supported by your LGS), definitely check out the Duel Commander website.


Very helpful info. Thanks for the response.

Joz wrote:
DONT PLAY TOP!
ITS BAD MAGIC JUJU!


Right on, I agree and don't run it. P.S. Juju Bubble?

crokaycete wrote:
As a guy with a 13 edh decks and 1 Sol Ring, I honestly don't it's as big a deal as a lot of people think it is.


With all due respect, you're kidding yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Potential watch cards?
AgePosted: 2013-Aug-28 5:39 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
As a guy that doesn't even Run Sol Ring in 10 out of 11 decks; and owning enough Sol Rings to do so...

Good riddance to mana rocks. Havn't needed them at all it seems.

Card Quality > Fast Mana Flood


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 Post subject: Re: Potential watch cards?
AgePosted: 2013-Oct-03 2:53 am 

Joined: 2013-Sep-30 6:17 am
Age: Egg
In relation to the Theros release, The only major card to watch that I can see would be Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. It puts Black Green and Blue so far ahead it's disgusting. THe density of multiple mana symbols in the costs of cards in those colors is abusurd. Furthermore, I put a copy in my Azami deck and it just pushes the deck so far ahead, it's unfair. Don't get me wrong, I'll run it until it's banned, but it's definitely unfair. The ability to basically win turn 4 or 5 in mono blue is gross, and in black, where you have Cabal Coffers and Magus of the Coffers... It's just unprecidented ramp.


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 Post subject: Re: Potential watch cards?
AgePosted: 2014-Jan-06 6:26 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
If only all lands weren't indestructible or cards were printed to specifically destroy them...

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 Post subject: Re: Potential watch cards?
AgePosted: 2014-Nov-18 4:24 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
MRHblue wrote:
If only all lands weren't indestructible or cards were printed to specifically destroy them...


The problem with this is that doing a 1 for 1 trade is okay in a duel, but in multiplayer its a terrible deal. Mass land destruction is heavily frowned upon (with good reason). While I agree that you do need to run answers that are versatile, saying something isn't broken because Stone Rain etc. can destroy it is silly. How many people really run that in EDH multiplayer or 1v1?

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


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 Post subject: Re: Potential watch cards?
AgePosted: 2014-Nov-18 5:33 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
I don't see anything wrong with running Strip mine and Wasteland. But then again, I don't see why this topic exists.

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 Post subject: Re: Potential watch cards?
AgePosted: 2014-Nov-18 5:42 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Shabbaman wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with running Strip mine and Wasteland. But then again, I don't see why this topic exists.

*shrugs shoulders and deals out cards for blackjack.*


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