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AgePosted: 2008-Sep-13 4:23 pm 
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Joined: 2008-May-28 3:42 pm
Age: Dragon
cmb_master wrote:
I'd also like to add, that I actually won the game. With a standard deck. Not only did the guy have bad Magic etiquette, he is just overall a terrible player. By the way, set of Force of Will was also proxied.


Botched both your "Knowledge: B&R lists" and "Detect Sarcasm" checks, I see.

When it comes down to it though, EDH is meant to be a casual, fun format. If you want to be so much of a dick to not let Timmy, who's just getting into magic and can't afford that cryptic command he needs for his Wydwen deck, to use a proxy or two, then go ahead. It's only going to hurt you and shorten the life of the format.

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AgePosted: 2008-Sep-14 8:48 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-17 1:21 pm
Age: Drake
Pleae stop talking about Legacy when you don't have a clue. Quirion Dryad sucks, Vamp Tutor is banned, and you guys are oblivious. And he seriously had to have the brains of an infant to lose to a Standard deck :roll:


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AgePosted: 2008-Oct-06 11:29 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Sep-28 8:38 pm
Age: Drake
personally, i only ever use proxies for one of the following reasons:
1. because i don't have enough of a card for all of my decks, and this is only so i don't forget what goes in each deck and don't have to write all of my lists down constantly; these proxies don't get played, just place holders (except when i need to lend a deck maybe, so that i have to use both at once.)
2. I'm testing out a relatively expensive or hard to find card before tracking it down or spending the money on it. no sense in dropping 20 bucks on a card which only might work in a casual deck.
3. I'm planning on getting the card in the immediate future and i know i can get it but just haven't found it yet. These are generally cards worth less than $1 and ones i just haven't found yet because either no one i know has one they'll trade me, or i just haven't been into the shop lately and I don't feel like ordering online.

in the end, I'm all for proxies for testing purposes or for placeholders while looking for cards, but never for valuable cards which i don't plan on getting soon.

don't full proxy paper magic, play MWS for that kind of testing. although, sometimes my friends and i will full proxy a joke deck to play once, just for the heck of it, but never for any sort of serious casual or competitive game.

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AgePosted: 2008-Oct-14 8:03 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Oct-14 7:43 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I'd like to weigh in. In my area, there is no card shop for miles. I have no car, no driver's license, and no desire to rifle through the one store's boxes and binders of cards to find one lousy uncommon from Legions. I can't buy cards online because I have no credit card, and even if I could, I'd have to wait weeks for delivery. And after that, it's entirely likely that I'll want to alter my deck in some way (heaven forbid!) and I'll have no way to get that copy of Soul Warden that I only later realized would be great in that soldier deck. Or this new set comes out and I really want to add those shiny new Knight-Captains of Eos and I have no means of obtaining them.

Point is, it's just not fair to expect me to be able to get new cards just by paying some magical genie that lives in my desk lamp. I have to get them from somewhere, and there is nowhere I can get to that sells Magic cards. So here I am proxying copies of Raise the Alarm and Ballynock Cohort. It's not exactly Mox Pearls. And at least I'm not like one of my friends, who thinks it's acceptable to put a basic land in a sleeve and slip in a little piece of paper with the text of the card typed in 12-point font, and call that a proxy.


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AgePosted: 2008-Oct-14 10:18 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Sep-15 10:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Portland, OR
The makeup of your playgroup plays a big part in whether or not proxies should be allowed, I think. If everyone else has expensive, high-powered cards that you can't afford, I would allow proxies. If you can afford the cards, then you should go out and buy them. On the flip side, if no one is using expensive, powerful cards/proxies, then there's no reason to proxy expensive cards.

I agree that if someone has enough money then he/she shouldn't use proxies. Buying cards contributes to the continuing health of the game; if people don't buy cards then Wizards can't keep making them. There's really no reason to get angry at people for being poor.

Indefinitely using proxies for cheap cards like Raise the Alarm is kind of iffy, but if you really don't have access to the cards you need I can't fault you for it.


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AgePosted: 2008-Oct-15 4:30 am 

Joined: 2008-Sep-18 7:07 am
Age: Wyvern
troacctid wrote:
In my area, there is no card shop for miles. I have no car, no driver's license, and no desire to rifle through the one store's boxes and binders of cards...


You could always join a site like MOTL. As long as you're trading within the states it shouldn't take weeks for delivery. A lot of the cards you mention are common/uncommon (aka "throwins"); so if you made a have/wants list it wouldn't be that difficult to scrounge them up.


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AgePosted: 2008-Oct-15 12:05 pm 

Joined: 2007-Dec-12 7:36 pm
Age: Dragon
redmage419 wrote:
troacctid wrote:
In my area, there is no card shop for miles. I have no car, no driver's license, and no desire to rifle through the one store's boxes and binders of cards...


You could always join a site like MOTL. As long as you're trading within the states it shouldn't take weeks for delivery. A lot of the cards you mention are common/uncommon (aka "throwins"); so if you made a have/wants list it wouldn't be that difficult to scrounge them up.


That sounds like so much more work than busting out some printer paper.

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AgePosted: 2008-Nov-30 7:05 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Oct-21 6:53 pm
Age: Wyvern
warble wrote:
GHoooSTS wrote:
Doraemon wrote:
I don't mind proxies as long as [you intend to buy the card]


Agreed in full. Magic is about how to spend money on cards. I'm not down with proxies for that reason. you should be fine with not using exclusively super-competitive cards. There's no need for proxies.


Disagreed in full....
... What would be entirely cooler would be if you didn't WANT to play with a sol ring and instead you wanted to make your deck strong enough to hang without it. That's what a peasant format is, and the beauty of EDH is. But to disallow it completely, to say "no you're poor you can't play with these cards" is unacceptable. I know that's not what you mean to imply, but it IS what is implied when you say people can't use proxies. Thus, in casual, you can basically always use proxies no problem and no questions asked. At least according to me.


What would be nice is to see someone try and build a deck well enough that they don't just wank on using the next uber-deck downloaded from some metagame tosspot site, proxies or not.

firstly, if i wanted to see dejavu repeatedly fighting more or less the same deck, I'd just nail my pants to a bench until the feeling of medeocrity passed. EDH demands total chaos, you CAN'T be garenteed the same game every time. you can tutor all you like and still not find the answer, and thats freaking amazing. you can't sideboard, you have to wait until game over, cry, tear up your chaos confetti for the last time and get over it.

the only card that is worth Proxy IMO is Chaos Confetti.

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AgePosted: 2008-Nov-30 7:08 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Oct-21 6:53 pm
Age: Wyvern
paperwarrior wrote:
The makeup of your playgroup plays a big part in whether or not proxies should be allowed, I think. If everyone else has expensive, high-powered cards that you can't afford, I would allow proxies. If you can afford the cards, then you should go out and buy them. On the flip side, if no one is using expensive, powerful cards/proxies, then there's no reason to proxy expensive cards.

I agree that if someone has enough money then he/she shouldn't use proxies. Buying cards contributes to the continuing health of the game; if people don't buy cards then Wizards can't keep making them. There's really no reason to get angry at people for being poor.

Indefinitely using proxies for cheap cards like Raise the Alarm is kind of iffy, but if you really don't have access to the cards you need I can't fault you for it.


a fair but balanced veiw.

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AgePosted: 2008-Nov-30 7:27 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Oct-21 6:53 pm
Age: Wyvern
Quote:
Whereas I can actually spend less money on a car battery and shock your nuts, I instead proxy that effect by a spell called "lightning bolt" WRITTEN ON A PIECE OF CARDBOARD by wizards by turning another piece of cardboard 90 degrees.

your hard earned money? dude, you aren't really a wizard or a planeswalker! the whole game is a proxy! it's pretend. i like pimp in my decks, too, but turning people away from my table means i play less. gee my flakes of cardboard are better than yours, take a hike. crap, now i guess i'll goldfish.


I like your attitude Philatio, I'll have to show you how to replicate in R/L such favorites as book burning and dark ritual, as soon as I find my flame thrower and my Iron maiden records... (yes, i said records, stfu n00bs)
black cards with discard effects can be caused with a combination of embarrasing photos and alcohol, thus your photocopied butt from last years xmas office party can cause Cohersion, don't ask what I can do with your nudie babie photoes, tequila and the only woman who would talk to you...mwa ha ha ha!

seriously, its about the game, don't proxy to metagame clone, proxy to be original perhaps. buy some real cards tho, or the game dies.
[/quote]

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Dec-03 2:08 pm 

Joined: 2007-Aug-26 10:52 pm
Age: Wyvern
Location: East Lansing, MI
I'm in the same playgroup as 'Scout' - pretty much threatened to forcibly insert things in their butt if they wouldn't play EDH...:shock:

just kidding...

I have used TONS of proxies in our games, being that I use a lot of the same cards multiple times, in multiple decks. Yes there needs to be variety for EDH flavor, but Damnation in a deck utilizing black or multiple copies of uncommon lands that i'm still tracking down since our local store SUCKS at stocking singles...seems fair, right? I had to proxy up Cryptic Commands for two decks because no one would sell them to me locally, or trade for months. I am an entirely casual player, and that being the case...it's hard to pick up copies of staple rares unless I can easily find someone to trade [never attend FNM], can buy them at a store [never in stock] or crack them in packs [I opened 1 cryptic command and ebayed 4 later on]. I think everyone feels fine about proxies in OUR playgroup because we're all actively looking for the cards; or if not we're testing them out first. [as others had mentioned]

That being said, I do NOT proxy dual lands - yet nearly all 10 of my decks have their respective copies [kept them out of my first EDH deck, Vorosh].

This is what i'm missing from my current decks - minus Teneb and Arcum:


Sygg, RCutthroat:
Force of Will [in a binder, have a playset. I loan decks - not getting bent]

Ulasht, Hateseed:
Akroma, angel of fury
Kamahl, fist of krosa [Obscure rare]
Insurrection [Obscure rare]
Pyrohemia [can't even find them]
Stomping Grounds [only own 2]
Fire-lit thicket
Tranquil Thicket
Grand Coliseum
Gaea's Cradle [$22, working on it..]
Karplusan Forest

Momir Vig:
Force of Will ["]
Gift's Ungiven [only own 2]
Venser
Breeding Pool [only own 3]
Minamo [shoot, I only own a playset...]
Tranquil Thicket

Numot:
Honden of Seeing winds
Compulsion
Cleansing Mediation
Sol Ring [I own between 5-7..sorry?]
Vivid Crag

Intet:

Genesis

Brion Stoutarm:
Sigil of the new dawn [obscure]
Battlefield Forge

and probably a few mind's eye here and there...

The point is, if you're playing casually, between friends...and you don't have $2,000 on reserve to throw at DUPLICATE copies of cards...maybe they'll understand.

Cycle lands and Mind's Eyes add up...

I have been vigilantly scouring for updates and have MASSIVE piles of sharpied on cards that I excitedly unsleeved. The bill on buying all this crap ends up being a hundred bucks here and there, and i've been meaning to just SCG buy-up my list of proxies...but I tend to start building something new ahead of time : )

Don't lose hair over it; i'm not.

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Vorosh,[Isperia], [Pheld], Intet, Maga, Brion, Numot, Ulasht, Sygg [RC],Momir Vig, Sol'kanar, Teysa, Teneb, Rafiq, Acrum, Acrum [heh, yuck], Saffi in the works.

[] = indicates being dismantled


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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-06 12:26 am 
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Joined: 2009-Feb-05 7:12 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Minnesota
My stance is that proxying should be allowed in EDH.


Proxying Revised dual lands and Ravnica shock lands is 100% okay with me, because they are mana fixnig and don't directly win the game. On the other hand, proxying cards like Mana Crypt, Sylvan Library and Mishra's Workshop is a bit ridiculous.

I am also unopposed to proxying cheap cards such as Indrik Stomphowler or Eternal Witness if you simply don't have enough to spare. I actually proxy Sol Rings in my EDH decks because I only happen to own one (and Sol Ring does not "win the game").

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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-06 4:49 am 
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Joined: 2007-Aug-25 2:26 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Rennes, Fr
B1ind Fremen wrote:
(and Sol Ring does not "win the game").
:lol:


Sorry.

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Apr-06 7:40 am 

Joined: 2009-Feb-04 6:50 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Grand Rapids
When should you use proxies?

I'll tell you when I use mine:

I use proxies if I don't have enough copies of a card (I don't want to find it in one edh so I can play it in another, I have multiple decks so others can play too, and so I have the ability to have a change of pace). Having to spend 5-10 minutes to find and switch cards out of a deck is a pain.

I use proxies to test cards I want until I can afford the cards I do want in the end.

I DON'T Play with proxies against people that I don't know yet, or who when I ask, tell me they don't want me to.

So if you have a playgroup that doesn't mind, play your proxies. If your playgroup cares, don't. I think people shouldn't get so up in arms about the way that people are trying to have fun unless it infringes on their fun.

(Plus having proxies of cards you are looking for gives your wife a good place to look to find cards you want for a birthday present. :-) )


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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-06 7:48 am 

Joined: 2009-Feb-04 6:50 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Grand Rapids
One other point:

If you are willing to look your friend in the eye and say, "Hey! I know the economy is crap, and you've been out of a job and had to sell all of your good cards for rent so you can't even make a decent EDH deck, but TOO F-n BAD! That's what you get for being a scrub without a job" (Especially in my state of Michigan where the unemployment rate is only about 11% right now)

If you are willing to say that, screw you! The game is casual and to not alow people to have fun because you have a wallet with cash and some people don't is BS.

That being said, if I had a buddy that I knew had a ton of disposable income, I wouldn't have too much of a problem asking the person if they were planning on picking up those cards if I saw them proxied over a few weeks. The game is intended for everyone to have fun. If someone isn't willing to look past the proxie to see the game they are playing, it's their loss.

BTW I proxie with my color printer... I hate doing the sharpie route (although I did before I got the printer).


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