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AgePosted: 2008-Oct-07 6:14 pm 

Joined: 2008-Mar-24 3:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: UCLA
Better than twice as good. You can draw the cards during your opponent's second main phase, so you can precisely figure out how much life you should lose. Additionally, you can play instants on your opponent's turn (like Brainstorm or Vampiric Tutor) and then get to draw afterwords.

Note that you can also pay to untap your Grim Monolith, Mana Vault, or Time Vault.

I had a Legacy + U deck once with 4 Necro-Impotence, 4 Mise, and 4 Jack-in-the-Mox, with no power, and it could kill get a tendrils kill with more consistency and faster than a T1 deck. If you want to feel that power without spending the big bucks I recommend it.


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AgePosted: 2008-Nov-15 12:33 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-02 10:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
that it allow more degenerate combo isnt to say its twice as good. Necro is great in all mono-(and many dual)-colored black decks.
Other than combo i dont think the UH version would see much play if it was black bordered

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AgePosted: 2008-Nov-19 1:14 pm 
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To aid in this (admittedly old) discussion, I split the silver-border cards into six categories:

#1. "Almost normal" cards:

I can see no reason why the following cards couldn't be allowed in EDH; as these cards don't really do anything that a normal MTG card can't do (and in fact could be real cards if WOTC chose to):

Unglued:
B.F.M. (Big Furry Monster) (left), B.F.M. (Big Furry Monster) (right), Checks and Balances, Chicken à la King, Chicken Egg, Clambassadors, Clam-I-Am, Common Courtesy, Denied!, Elvish Impersonators, Flock of Rabid Sheep, Fowl Play, Free-Range Chicken, Get a Life, Giant Fan, Goblin Bookie, Goblin Bowling Team, Goblin Tutor, Growth Spurt, Hungry Hungry Heifer, Infernal Spawn of Evil, Jack-in-the-Mox, Jalum Grifter, Jester's Sombrero, Jumbo Imp, Krazy Kow, Lexivore, Look at Me, I'm the DCI, Miss Demeanor, Organ Harvest, Paper Tiger, Poultrygeist, Ricochet, Rock Lobster, Scissors Lizard, Spark Fiend, Spatula of the Ages, Squirrel Farm, Strategy, Schmategy, Team Spirit, Temp of the Damned, The Cheese Stands Alone, The Ultimate Nightmare of Wizards of the Coast® Customer Service, Timmy, Power Gamer, Urza's Science Fair Project
Unhinged:
"Ach! Hans, Run!", _____, Aesthetic Consultation, Ambiguity, Artful Looter, Assquatch, AWOL, Bad Ass, B-I-N-G-O, Blast from the Past, Bloodletter, Bosom Buddy, Brushstroke Paintermage, Bursting Beebles, Carnivorous Death-Parrot, Cheap Ass, Circle of Protection: Art, City of Ass, Curse of the Fire Penguin, Double Header, Drawn Together, Duh, Dumb Ass, Erase (Not the Urza's Legacy One), Fascist Art Director, First Come, First Served, Flaccify, Form of the Squirrel, Fraction Jackson, Framed!, Frazzled Editor, Goblin Mime, Goblin Secret Agent, Graphic Violence, Greater Morphling, Head to Head, Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil, Johnny, Combo Player, Keeper of the Sacred Word, Little Girl, Look at Me, I'm R&D, Magical Hacker, Mana Flair, Mana Screw, Meddling Kids, Mise, Moniker Mage, Monkey Monkey Monkey, Mons's Goblin Waiters, Mother of Goons, My First Tome, Necro-Impotence, Old Fogey, Our Market Research Shows That Players Like Really Long Card Names So We Made This Card to Have the Absolute Longest Card Name Ever Elemental, Persecute Artist, Punctuate, Pygmy Giant, Rare-B-Gone, Remodel, Rocket-Powered Turbo Slug, S.N.O.T., Sauté, Six-y Beast, Smart Ass, Super Secret Tech, Supersize, Symbol Status, Tainted Monkey, The Fallen Apart, Togglodyte, Topsy Turvy, Uktabi Kong, Urza's Hot Tub, Water Gun Balloon Game, Wet Willie of the Damned, When Fluffy Bunnies Attack, Who // What // When // Where // Why, Wordmail, World-Bottling Kit, Yet Another Æther Vortex, Zombie Fanboy, Zzzyxas's Abyss

I did allow six-sided die rolling cards, as they don't seem to be that hard to do in a real game.
There are some really fun cards in here, like Ach Hans Run, Rare-B-Gone, the 5-way split card, Timmy and Johnny (though Johnny might be too powerful). But I'll leave the critique for another time.

#2. Fundamentally broken cards:

These cards might or might not be possible, as they break some really fundamental rules, cause an auto-win of the game (or a near auto-win), or are extremely "chaotic" or "annoying" (moving many cards around, etc.):

Unglued:
Burning Cinder Fury of Crimson Chaos Fire - chaotic/annoying
Free-for-All - chaotic/annoying
Gerrymandering - chaotic/annoying
Incoming! - game becomes instantly broken
Mine, Mine, Mine! - game becomes instantly broken
Mirror Mirror - chaotic/annoying
Once More with Feeling - too powerful/annoying
Unhinged:
Gleemax - annoying / near auto-win
Mox Lotus - game is broken
Now I Know My ABC's - auto-win

Depending on the play group, Johnny Combo Player (on my #1 list) could also be considered banworthy.

#3. Booster Tutor:

Booster Tutor could be allowed, if your group allows pulling cards in from outside the sideboard. Some groups are strict about this.

#4. The "Double" cards:

Cards that reference other games may or may not be possible, depending on how lax your group is. Personally I think they involve too much memory and are probably better off banned:

Unglued:
Double Deal, Double Dip, Double Play, Double Take, Ghazbán Ogress, Gus
Unhinged:
Time Machine

#5. Cards that involve physical actions:

I personally believe all of these should be banned. They are not only annoying (to most players I've played with anyway), but are difficult for those with special needs.
Any card that forces someone else to do something (physically, speaking, etc.) is on this list.
Cards that only require simple speech on the part of the card owner (e.g. Infernal Spawn of Evil) are easy enough to deal with, so I put them on the #1 list instead.
Cards where the card owner needs to do something special other than simple speaking to gain an advantage (e.g. Bronze Calendar) are listed here, because they might be getting an unfair advantage.

Unglued:
Ashnod's Coupon, Blacker Lotus, Bronze Calendar, Bureaucracy, Cardboard Carapace, Censorship, Chaos Confetti, Charm School, Clam Session, Clay Pigeon, Deadhead, Handcuffs, Hurloon Wrangler, I'm Rubber, You're Glue, Knight of the Hokey Pokey, Landfill, Mesa Chicken, Ow, Prismatic Wardrobe, Psychic Network, Sex Appeal, Sorry, Urza's Contact Lenses, Volrath's Motion Sensor
Unhinged:
Ass Whuppin', Atinlay Igpay, Avatar of Me, Cardpecker, Cheatyface, Collector Protector, Creature Guy, Deal Damage, Elvish House Party, Emcee, Enter the Dungeon, Eye to Eye, Face to Face, Farewell to Arms, Fat Ass, Frankie Peanuts, Gluetius Maximus, Goblin S.W.A.T. Team, Granny's Payback, Kill! Destroy!, Ladies' Knight, Land Aid '04, Laughing Hyena, Letter Bomb, Loose Lips, Man of Measure, Mouth to Mouth, Name Dropping, Number Crunch, Orcish Paratroopers, Phyrexian Librarian, Pointy Finger of Doom, Question Elemental?, Red-Hot Hottie, Rod of Spanking, Save Life, Shoe Tree, Side to Side, Spell Counter, Standing Army, Stone-Cold Basilisk, Stop That, Touch and Go, Toy Boat, Vile Bile, Working Stiff

#6. Promo (non-Un) cards

There are a couple cards that are silver-bordered that are not from Unglued/Unhinged:

Fruitcake Elemental - nothing special here, could be allowed
Gifts Given - I'd say ban it. Putting your opponent's cards in your hand is generally a no-no in normal magic.

EDIT: Moved Once More with Feeling from #1 to #2.


Last edited by smileylich on 2008-Nov-19 1:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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AgePosted: 2008-Nov-19 1:27 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
You think Once More with Feeling is fine but Gleemax is busted? I don't understand. Gleemax basically gives everything (players, permanents, libraries, cards not in play) a Shielding Plax, because your opponents won't play effects that target unless they really need to play a creature and Indrik Stomphowler is their only option.

Once More with Feeling is like the already banned Sway of the Stars, except that it does a little RFGing and costs ALMOST NOTHING OH MY GOD THIS CARD WOULD WRECK SO MANY GAMES HEY MY CAPSLOCK IS STUCK


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AgePosted: 2008-Nov-19 1:42 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Oct-20 10:43 am
Age: Drake
Location: Penn State University
True, Once More with Feeling should probably be banned, I missed that. I edited the original post. It's not a heavily played card in my area (I think I've seen it played twice).

Gleemax, however, I have seen played quite often, and I personally think it's annoying. Annoying enough to ban? Dunno. The #2 - #4 lists are "Could be allowed or banned" lists, after all.


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AgePosted: 2008-Nov-19 1:49 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Apr-15 9:42 am
Age: Drake
Location: Waterloo, ON
Of the Chaotic List, not too many of them are much worse than Thieves Auction, Confusion in the Ranks or anything of that nature.

I think BCFoCCF, Free-for-All, and Gerrymandering are perfectly acceptable.

If anybody was able to pull off an ABC victory, they definitely earned it, so no way that should be banned.

And stuff like Stop That or Censorship are part of the reason TO play Unglued cards. They put stupid little limitations, but aren't too hard for anyone to deal with. I think most of the "physical actions" list is definitely playable, especially the ones that just require occasional talking.

Overall, I would love it if Unglued cards were legal.

Stop That would be in any black deck I own....
SOO easy to recur.

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AgePosted: 2008-Nov-19 3:26 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jun-05 7:16 pm
Age: Drake
Honestly? Ashnod's Coupon is the one "physical" card I would allow.

I mean, its hilariously awesome.


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AgePosted: 2008-Nov-21 7:40 pm 
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I just wanted to voice my deep seated love for this thread :)

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AgePosted: 2008-Nov-21 9:02 pm 
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I think Frankie Peanuts is more of an "almost normal" card than a "physical action" card.


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AgePosted: 2008-Nov-23 3:13 am 
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Joined: 2008-Oct-20 10:43 am
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If anyone wants to modify the list and re-post, feel free. Perhaps we should organize some sort of voting or something. I wonder how many people would support allowing some silver-bordered cards in EDH, perhaps a poll is in order?


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AgePosted: 2008-Nov-24 10:57 pm 

Joined: 2006-Jul-14 12:02 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
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smileylich wrote:
If anyone wants to modify the list and re-post, feel free. Perhaps we should organize some sort of voting or something. I wonder how many people would support allowing some silver-bordered cards in EDH, perhaps a poll is in order?


If you want to, play them, and bring a small sideboard for when you have to play with killjoys.


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AgePosted: 2008-Nov-25 10:10 am 

Joined: 2007-Jun-04 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Gainsville, FL
Volrath's Motion Sensor - hell no. After my last brain surgery, I lost the use of my left hand for a while and it took months of physical therapy before I could manipulate my fingers well enough to dress myself (zippers and buttons are a real bitch). I bet now, a year later, I'd still have a lot of trouble balancing a card on that hand, but not too much trouble tearing it up if you tried playing it on me.

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AgePosted: 2008-Nov-25 10:43 am 
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Philatio wrote:
Volrath's Motion Sensor - hell no. After my last brain surgery, I lost the use of my left hand for a while and it took months of physical therapy before I could manipulate my fingers well enough to dress myself (zippers and buttons are a real bitch). I bet now, a year later, I'd still have a lot of trouble balancing a card on that hand, but not too much trouble tearing it up if you tried playing it on me.
:shock: I'm sorry to hear! How about shuffling? :(

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AgePosted: 2008-Nov-25 5:11 pm 

Joined: 2007-Jun-04 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Gainsville, FL
yawg07 wrote:
Philatio wrote:
Volrath's Motion Sensor - hell no. After my last brain surgery, I lost the use of my left hand for a while and it took months of physical therapy before I could manipulate my fingers well enough to dress myself (zippers and buttons are a real bitch). I bet now, a year later, I'd still have a lot of trouble balancing a card on that hand, but not too much trouble tearing it up if you tried playing it on me.
:shock: I'm sorry to hear! How about shuffling? :(


Still a bitch. But I take my time and manage. I try to think of it as therapy. :)

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