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 Post subject: Re: Having Your Voice Heard
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-26 4:54 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Inkeyes22 wrote:
More than anything it is the mana bases that get hit, especially by newer players. Pay $260 for a Bayou or $6 for Blooming Marsh or $0.15 for Foul Orchard?

I specifically removed my ABUR Duals from my commander decks a long time ago. I did this intentionally as I believe that running them didn't matter. I still run Shocklands... but those prices are still a far cry from the ABUR duals :)

And for the record, I didn't notice any manner of problems in not running them. Sure, technically there probably is -- but as mentioned there's a bunch of different types of 'duals' or filter lands, etc., that the actual impact of the original duals is kind of small for your average deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Having Your Voice Heard
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-26 5:29 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Carthain wrote:
Inkeyes22 wrote:
More than anything it is the mana bases that get hit, especially by newer players. Pay $260 for a Bayou or $6 for Blooming Marsh or $0.15 for Foul Orchard?

I specifically removed my ABUR Duals from my commander decks a long time ago. I did this intentionally as I believe that running them didn't matter. I still run Shocklands... but those prices are still a far cry from the ABUR duals :)

And for the record, I didn't notice any manner of problems in not running them. Sure, technically there probably is -- but as mentioned there's a bunch of different types of 'duals' or filter lands, etc., that the actual impact of the original duals is kind of small for your average deck.


I have gone back and forth with it, there was a guy that I played with a few years ago that would attack anybody that dropped a card worth more than $50. It was very poor threat assessment in my opinion but he felt it was a viable strategy. Replacing the ABUR dual with the 5th or 6th best option probably won't affect your win ratio much at all. Not playing the top 5 or 6 options because they are all $20+ or more now and you just started a year ago will affect your win ratios.

Now I know that win =/= fun for lots of people, but if I play 10 games and get smoked in all ten games am I going to want to play again? Probably not. If I win 2/10 but it is close and I am playing against 4 other people that are also roughly winning 20% of the time that is where I want to be. 1/x is the sweet spot in my opinion.

I mean I get it, I cannot just drop $2k to build a deck today either, but I can get a $20 card here or there and eventually that $2k deck.

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Having Your Voice Heard
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-26 6:20 am 
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Joined: 2012-May-11 11:02 am
Age: Drake
Putting ABUR lands in your deck in EDH does so very little to increase your efficiency. So long as you aren't explicitly a lands deck, and your budget solution doesn't involve too many ETB tapped lands (besides Temples, which are solid), you can go hilariously cheap on your mana base without hurting yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Having Your Voice Heard
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-26 6:51 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Inkeyes22 wrote:
there was a guy that I played with a few years ago that would attack anybody that dropped a card worth more than $50. It was very poor threat assessment in my opinion but he felt it was a viable strategy.

That sounds like a very long-term strategy. And it really depends on the rest of the group if that would work as a deterrent, or not at all. I've done the same in the past "You're playing that commander, so I'm attacking you - yes, at the expense of my board position, and yes there are probably better targets sometimes." ... it did work. He stopped running that commander (Teferi)

Inkeyes22 wrote:
If I win 2/10 but it is close and I am playing against 4 other people that are also roughly winning 20% of the time that is where I want to be. 1/x is the sweet spot in my opinion.
Yep agreed. I think that is indeed the sweet spot -- means (to me) that everyone is either at the same level of deck/playskill -- or that someone who's got decks that are struggling are only pulling out their "killer" decks an appropriate number of times :) (I may have done that from time to time. ;) )


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 Post subject: Re: Having Your Voice Heard
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-27 6:52 am 

Joined: 2010-Mar-10 1:31 pm
Age: Dragon
Segrus wrote:
trappedslider wrote:
But I do think that going forward the RC/CAG should at the very least post a thread link to on going discussions about cards that take place either here or over at mtgnexusr.

We, meaning some of the regulars here willing to volunteer, probably could take up this task too.


I'm already realizing a reluctance to post outside of reddit, I posted a link to a discussion about wishes that's going on over at the nexus and despite saying that any comments should be made at nexus, folks aren't listening. :facepalm: I'm starting to think Sheldon and Co will need a secretary whose sole job is just copying and pasting from one location to another lol

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onlainari wrote:
trappedslider wrote:
EDIT: so if i somehow manged to get down to 1 life,played Repay in Kind followed by Decree of Annihilation then it owuld be bad evil juju?

That's not how magic works. You can't equate cards and situations linearly like that!


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 Post subject: Re: Having Your Voice Heard
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-29 2:06 am 
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Joined: 2010-May-09 10:39 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Sheldon, thanks for posting this.

From my standpoint, your latest article pointed out one change I'd like to see, and that is lowering the starting life total to 30. Right now, it's very hard to deal 120 points of combat damage without going infinite with Kiki-Jiki, or just some other infinite token-generating iteration.

If it goes to 30, Red might actually be able to get in there with some beaters and burn spells, and White might be able to attack more with critters. This would also have the desired (by me, anyways! :D) effect of putting combo players on a shorter clock. It would make cracking fetchlands a little more costly, which is a good thing.

Overall my wish list is still just to junk Mana Crypt, Mana Vault and Grim Monolith.
I understand Sol Ring is forever, that's fine. But if you can't do that (axe those rocks), then starting at 30 would be ideal.

Edit: As for being "heard", I have been playing less Commander and playing more other casual formats like Winston Draft, Judge's Tower, Memory Magic etc. because Commander has had too much "sameness" with decks being too streamlined.
I mean, my favourite current deck is my Jasmine Boreal deck, which is based entirely around her flavour text "Peace must prevail, even if the wicked must die." So there's Northern Paladin, Southern Paladin, Pentarch Paladin, Peace Talks, Truce, Peacekeeper...and there's a nature sub-theme (Jasmine, Boreal) so lots of bees and stuff. It never wins, or rarely. I have won maybe one game with the deck, but this is the kind of Magic I find fun. I do have a Xantcha deck which is more compettive, for when my friend is in town (he really likes cEDH) but I prefer a game where no one really wins, but time gets spent playing and then we go home and do other stuff.

_________________
Generals:
Jasmine Boreal - Flower power! Nature/Justice/Retribution themed casual fun.
Radha, Heir to Keld - All white-bordered!
Xantcha, Sleeper Agent - cEDH discard/attrition.
Pre-Modern:
A Denying Wind.
Duel Commander:
Nissa, Vastwoord Seer - Ramp ramp ramp into Ugin+Painter's Servant.
Kari Zev, Skyship Raider - Unbridled Aggro

Find me Saturdays at the Wizard's Tower - Ottawa and occasional Mondays at Westboro Legion for Duel Commander.


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 Post subject: Re: Having Your Voice Heard
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-30 12:19 am 

Joined: 2017-Dec-23 4:51 am
Age: Wyvern
There's one thing I really want to ask to the Comitee:

If you're ever involved in creating a Red-White deck for the next Commander products, PLEASE try to offer Wizards a different viewpoint for the combination. Extremely aggressive decks maybe fun in the right format but in Commander they lack fuel, and I don't think that changing the starting life total to 30 is the best solution for this.

I've had a decent success for some years with my Red-White EDH deck ("Tajic and the Immortals") by playing a "defense and counteroffense" strategy, and I believe that Red-White is the best combination for that phylosophically. We already have Deflecting Palm, Reflect Damage, Captain's Maneuver, Sunforger, so I don't see a reason other than "we must keep Red-White Boros forever" why WotC can't try a different approach for new decks in this combination.

White is the color of all answers, but is lacks flexibility. Red is the color of impulse but it's also of flexibility. Combining both we could have lots of value cards like Sunforger and Feather already playing Commander happily, but for that a little shift from the tradition is needed.

Broader card draw for White is a battle already lost, so let's try to be more imaginative. More useful defensive spells, more viable finishers, that's what we might want to focus on to get better results!


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 Post subject: Re: Having Your Voice Heard
AgePosted: 2019-Jul-30 3:43 am 

Joined: 2019-Jul-30 12:39 am
Age: Egg
I would really like to have one centralized website, or media format, where I can get information. I guess this website is good as any but I didn't know about this website until I did a lot more digging and begging.

Furthermore I would like RC and CAG to have more open discussions instead of one long discussion on discord. Make things more transparent for the players to see what's going on. Set meeting dates and agendas and post the results of the discussions, have feedback every step of the way. No need to respond to the feedback, but just receive them. Or else it's just side-table talk that lasts as long as the discord server is available. More structure and more transparency please.

I am assuming that things that are discussed include how to better communications between the majority of the player base and cEDH players, how to define what's competitive and battlecruiser (F1 and Civics).

My opinion is to start at step 1 (What kind of deck are you playing?) and see where it goes. There is no need to make a whole script of questions to determine if the decks can have a good game together. The majority of the player base already have lots of experience to avoid bad match ups.

I would like to point out that it is the very few of the players that go around and pubstomp and not care about Rule 0.

Thanks for your time and patience.


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 Post subject: Re: Having Your Voice Heard
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-01 6:48 am 

Joined: 2019-Apr-29 9:42 pm
Age: Drake
petruscaex wrote:
There's one thing I really want to ask to the Comitee:

If you're ever involved in creating a Red-White deck for the next Commander products, PLEASE try to offer Wizards a different viewpoint for the combination. Extremely aggressive decks maybe fun in the right format but in Commander they lack fuel, and I don't think that changing the starting life total to 30 is the best solution for this.

I've had a decent success for some years with my Red-White EDH deck ("Tajic and the Immortals") by playing a "defense and counteroffense" strategy, and I believe that Red-White is the best combination for that phylosophically. We already have Deflecting Palm, Reflect Damage, Captain's Maneuver, Sunforger, so I don't see a reason other than "we must keep Red-White Boros forever" why WotC can't try a different approach for new decks in this combination.

White is the color of all answers, but is lacks flexibility. Red is the color of impulse but it's also of flexibility. Combining both we could have lots of value cards like Sunforger and Feather already playing Commander happily, but for that a little shift from the tradition is needed.

Broader card draw for White is a battle already lost, so let's try to be more imaginative. More useful defensive spells, more viable finishers, that's what we might want to focus on to get better results!


Being a huge fan of mid range I’ve had luck building archangels avycyn. I’ve been trying to build boros for a long time to make it my own thing and that’s the list I’ve had the most luck with. The 4/6 sunkeeper Minotaurs that give spells Lifelink is also a great one that’s not pure combat. Feather is just combo that happens to go voltron.

I think the issue with boros is that the colors are just condusive to getting auras and equipments I a couple of creatures and turning them sideways. Even I couldn’t avoid what the colors tend to do most consistently and powerfully.

Sorry to derail the forum. The only other way boros wins seems to be approach of the second sun or alternatively someone unleashed the life cannon and pays 50 to deal 50.

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Deck list Thraximundar midrange/control

Deck list Jund creature combo (not updated)


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 Post subject: Re: Having Your Voice Heard
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-02 11:01 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Va'al-Vanir wrote:
I would really like to have one centralized website, or media format, where I can get information. I guess this website is good as any but I didn't know about this website until I did a lot more digging and begging.

Furthermore I would like RC and CAG to have more open discussions instead of one long discussion on discord. Make things more transparent for the players to see what's going on. Set meeting dates and agendas and post the results of the discussions, have feedback every step of the way. No need to respond to the feedback, but just receive them. Or else it's just side-table talk that lasts as long as the discord server is available. More structure and more transparency please.

I am assuming that things that are discussed include how to better communications between the majority of the player base and cEDH players, how to define what's competitive and battlecruiser (F1 and Civics).

I'm not RC/CAG, but I can respond to this a little. A new website is in the works, but it's going to take time. The goal is to expand beyond a traditional forum and be a singular place where you can get format information and resources, as well as eventually original content, among other things.

As for making the discussions public knowledge, that comes with it's own problems. They frequently discuss a range of topics, even if they aren't acting on them. Players already misinterpret Sheldon's articles when he talks about a card he dislikes. So when you start to see official meetings discuss Card X then there is more confusion beyond what should be a binary "this card is banned/not banned" as players start to feed off this "Watch List" Then there is the unintended impact on the secondary market that will take this information and speculate on it.

Lastly, remember that one of the perks of the CAG are that so far.they have been quite open about discussing certain aspects of their discussions, so we are starting to see some more of the curtain pulled back. But pulling it back completely would be a mistake. The RC can operate as it does because they don't have to worry about public repercussion over things they just discussed but didn't act on.


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 Post subject: Re: Having Your Voice Heard
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-05 3:38 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Mar-10 4:30 am
Age: Drake
I'm still trying to ask if it's possible to get my username changed to "Vessiliana", which is what I'm trying to do at all the Magic forums I frequent... :oops:

That would certainly let me know my voice was heard! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Having Your Voice Heard
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-06 12:01 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Isabelle wrote:
I'm still trying to ask if it's possible to get my username changed to "Vessiliana"

As they're working on creating a new site -- it may just be simpler for that to happen and then register with the new name on the new site.

I have no idea if they plan on migrating all of these forums over or not (depends on what kind of system they use for us to chat in, and how easy/hard it is to migrate it.) I suspect an easier route would be to host these forums as they are in a read-only mode so people can still look things up or reference them, but start with brand new forums.


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 Post subject: Re: Having Your Voice Heard
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-07 11:06 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Mar-10 4:30 am
Age: Drake
Carthain wrote:
Isabelle wrote:
I'm still trying to ask if it's possible to get my username changed to "Vessiliana"

As they're working on creating a new site -- it may just be simpler for that to happen and then register with the new name on the new site.

I have no idea if they plan on migrating all of these forums over or not (depends on what kind of system they use for us to chat in, and how easy/hard it is to migrate it.) I suspect an easier route would be to host these forums as they are in a read-only mode so people can still look things up or reference them, but start with brand new forums.


Thank you! I'll do that.

And I certainly plan to show up there, even if I'm as slow a poster there as I am here... :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Having Your Voice Heard
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-08 12:20 am 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Orlando, Florida
Carthain wrote:
Isabelle wrote:
I'm still trying to ask if it's possible to get my username changed to "Vessiliana"

As they're working on creating a new site -- it may just be simpler for that to happen and then register with the new name on the new site.

Do we have any idea on a time frame yet?


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 Post subject: Re: Having Your Voice Heard
AgePosted: 2019-Aug-08 5:47 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
No. As far as I know this is still in the vision/brainstorming phase and they don't even have a developer yet.


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