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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-03 5:59 am 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 4:04 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Boston, MA
spacemonaut wrote:
Given the challenge scenario, I feel compelled to point out that if allowed to Mulligan to 1, any deck (even a deck full of plains) would beat the target deck by simply having 59 draws instead of 55:


Yeah, it should be 65 cards, I went the wrong way... when we were talking about it originally we didn't really specify the size of the opponents deck.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-03 7:13 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
spacemonaut wrote:
Kemev wrote:
But then Soul Spike loses to Leyline of Sanctity (mull to 1, then Soul Spike draws out first).


Given the challenge scenario, I feel compelled to point out that if allowed to Mulligan to 1, any deck (even a deck full of plains) would beat the target deck by simply having 59 draws instead of 55:

But you soul spike them to death before drawing out your library and losing


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-03 12:45 pm 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Coco wrote:
spacemonaut wrote:
Given the challenge scenario, I feel compelled to point out that if allowed to Mulligan to 1, any deck (even a deck full of plains) would beat the target deck by simply having 59 draws instead of 55:


Yeah, it should be 65 cards, I went the wrong way... when we were talking about it originally we didn't really specify the size of the opponents deck.


That makes sense.

Sovarius wrote:
spacemonaut wrote:
Kemev wrote:
But then Soul Spike loses to Leyline of Sanctity (mull to 1, then Soul Spike draws out first).


Given the challenge scenario, I feel compelled to point out that if allowed to Mulligan to 1, any deck (even a deck full of plains) would beat the target deck by simply having 59 draws instead of 55:

But you soul spike them to death before drawing out your library and losing


"The target deck" here means the deck of nothing but 55 basic lands that mulls to 0 in the OP. Presumably we have to find a way to win without mulliganing. Vsing 65 basic lands as Coco mentioned above also works: it forces us to find a win condition before we lose to drawing 60 cards.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-03 2:15 pm 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 4:04 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Boston, MA
This talk about deck size made me realize... It only works if their deck is less than 10 cards larger than yours, but given the parameters (either the 55 and you can't mulligan or the 65) Noxious Revival is a viable deck. I'm going to count it for now because I think its one of the funnier ways to win the challenge.

_________________
Sygg, River Cutthroat: Ninjas, Rogues, Ophidians
Rosheen Meanderer: Hydras
Sapling of Colfenor: Toughness > Power
Riku: Pump Spells
Teneb: Life Manipulation
Kiki-Jiki: Big Red
Geth: Nim
Kodama of the North Tree: Hard Mode Voltron
Nin: Elementals
Sram: Jankstorm
Zur: Zombies
Rhys the Redeemed: Aura Voltron
Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh: Chandras
Ojutai, Soul of Winter: Tap Out Control
Alesha: Allies
Inalla: Treasures
Vial Smasher: Lava Axes
Atraxa: Counterless Keywords
Ludevic and Tymna: Curses


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-04 8:08 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
spacemonaut wrote:
"The target deck" here means the deck of nothing but 55 basic lands that mulls to 0 in the OP. Presumably we have to find a way to win without mulliganing. Vsing 65 basic lands as Coco mentioned above also works: it forces us to find a win condition before we lose to drawing 60 cards.

Ohh, i am reading that kind of backwards. Gotcha



This all reminds me of a forum minigame where you design a 5 card hand that can win. If a card goes to your graveyard, it instead goes to the bottom of your library, and you can't lose to drawing a card with 0 in the deck. The card selection is so simple you can figure out the ideal path and our opponent doesn't need to be responding to anything.

Some 5 card hands were 4x Tangle Chancellor 1x Eureka, 1x Forest 1x Dark Depths 1x Thespian's 1x Mana Bond 1x Life From the Loam, 4x Lotus 1x Blightsteel Colossus.

After a round, all cards that were used were banned. So all the turn 1 win hands that duked out, win or lose, were basically banned from the game.
Then round 2 is a new 5 cards but it's way more relaxed with fairer matchups since everyone got their crazy Lotus hands and stuff out of the way.

It was also played with 4 card hands as well.

Decks were submitted to the person running the game, as you should be allowed to see other's decks when building yours. But when it was time to play, you see all the decks, and report your score based on which ones you can beat. It's played in 2 games (each deck goes first once) and you get 1 point per win.

There were only small cases where interactions could be argued to be optimal or not, and were easily handled. For example if your 5-card hand/deck contains Swords to Plowshares and Force of Will maybe?

If anyone is interested, i would run something like that actually. I have a few ideas :)

edit: or we could do 60 card decks made of one single card, haha.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-05 7:05 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
You guys have token producing lands on there as able to win the game, and dryad arbor... why not the other man-lands?

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-05 7:09 am 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
niheloim wrote:
You guys have token producing lands on there as able to win the game, and dryad arbor... why not the other man-lands?


No one's had the gumption to list them out.

Also because the critter-lands cower in fear of the mighty Memnite legion.

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