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 Post subject: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-29 7:30 am 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 4:04 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Boston, MA
For anyone who likes puzzles...
My playgroup was talking about cards that could win the game by themselves, and somehow it segued into cards that could literally win the game by themselves.

So here are the rules of the experiment:
Your deck must consist of exactly 60 copies of the same card.
You must be able to beat (on the play and on the draw) a deck of 65 basic lands (you don't know which type) that always mulligans to zero, and plays a land each turn if possible.

So far we have come up with...

Cheap as Free:
Memnite
Basking Rootwalla
Dryad Arbor
Soul Spike (thanks to Inkeyes22)
Allosaurus Rider (thanks to Tim Proctor)
Nether Spirit (thanks to Tim Proctor)
Nether Shadow (thanks to Tim Proctor)
Vine Dryad (thanks to Tim Proctor)
Noxious Revival

Pays for Itself:
Elvish Spirit Guide
Simian Spirit Guide

Reveal your Hand:
Chancellor of the Dross
Chancellor of the Spires
Chancellor of the Forge
Chancellor of the Tangle

The Man in the Land:
Any manland that taps for the colors it needs to activate. If someone wants to list them out, I will update the list here, but I am too lazy.

Lands that create tokens: (thanks to specter404)
Cradle of the Accursed
Foundry of the Consuls
Gargoyle Castle
Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai
Memorial to Glory
Spawning Bed
Urza's Factory
Westvale Abbey

Other Lands:
Barbarian Ring
Cephalid Coliseum
Ipnu Rivulet
Sunscorched Desert
Piranha Marsh (thanks to specter404)

Save it for Later:
Any card that shuffles itself into your library when it is put into your graveyard from anywhere (Eldrazi Titans, Colossi, Elemental Incarnations, etc.). Again, too lazy to list them out.

Can you think of any others?

_________________
Sygg, River Cutthroat: Ninjas, Rogues, Ophidians
Rosheen Meanderer: Hydras
Sapling of Colfenor: Toughness > Power
Riku: Pump Spells
Teneb: Life Manipulation
Kiki-Jiki: Big Red
Geth: Nim
Kodama of the North Tree: Hard Mode Voltron
Nin: Elementals
Sram: Jankstorm
Zur: Zombies
Rhys the Redeemed: Aura Voltron
Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh: Chandras
Ojutai, Soul of Winter: Tap Out Control
Alesha: Allies
Inalla: Treasures
Vial Smasher: Lava Axes
Atraxa: Counterless Keywords
Ludevic and Tymna: Curses


Last edited by Coco on 2018-Dec-03 2:16 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-29 9:08 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
This reminded me of an article I read a bit ago: https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/what-if-the-4-card-limit-was-abolished-in-modern/

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-29 9:23 am 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 4:04 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Boston, MA
Cool article, and it also contained a card we missed (Soul Spike).

_________________
Sygg, River Cutthroat: Ninjas, Rogues, Ophidians
Rosheen Meanderer: Hydras
Sapling of Colfenor: Toughness > Power
Riku: Pump Spells
Teneb: Life Manipulation
Kiki-Jiki: Big Red
Geth: Nim
Kodama of the North Tree: Hard Mode Voltron
Nin: Elementals
Sram: Jankstorm
Zur: Zombies
Rhys the Redeemed: Aura Voltron
Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh: Chandras
Ojutai, Soul of Winter: Tap Out Control
Alesha: Allies
Inalla: Treasures
Vial Smasher: Lava Axes
Atraxa: Counterless Keywords
Ludevic and Tymna: Curses


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-29 9:24 am 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
(i can't forum good apparently ignore me)

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Last edited by Kemev on 2018-Nov-29 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-29 9:25 am 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
Kemev wrote:
Soul Spike, under Pays for itself

Coco wrote:
You must be able to beat (on the play and on the draw) a deck of 55 basic lands (you don't know which type) that always mulligans to zero, and plays a land each turn if possible.


I was trying to figure out which card wins if you play them head to head... I don't think anything beats Chancellor of the Dross though...


Edit: D'oh, ninja'd

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-29 9:40 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Lands that create tokens:
Cradle of the accursed
Foundry of the Consuls
Gargoyle Castle
God's Eye, Gate the Reikai
Memorial to Glory
Sliver Hive
Spawning Bed
Urza's Factory
Westvale Abby

Also Pirannah Marsh

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Ghost Council of Orzhova

Playing Online:
Noyan Darr & Sedris Zombie Guy


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-29 11:18 am 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-16 3:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
This reminds me of the pre 4 card rule, pre errata Rukh Egg, back when it didn't specify how it went to the graveyard.

Nether Spirit
Nether Shadow
Allosaurus Rider
Pyrokinesis
Soul Spike
Vine Dryad
Goblin Guide
Pact of the Titan


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-29 11:40 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Tim Proctor wrote:
This reminds me of the pre 4 card rule, pre errata Rukh Egg, back when it didn't specify how it went to the graveyard.

Nether Spirit
Nether Shadow
Allosaurus Rider
Pyrokinesis - This only damages creatures - how would you win?
Soul Spike
Vine Dryad
Goblin Guide - How would you cast this?
Pact of the Titan - How would you not lose the game?

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"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-29 11:45 am 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-16 3:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Sorry, but I don't think you're playing the same game I am.

Edit: the goblin guide and pact were from a game where the first play to play does goblin guide, opponent pacts making a 4/4 (before they had lands), other player pacts killing the titan, etc. We all lost (technically) but since I can write this years later and still smile and laugh it means I won.

Also pyro isn't as good as I thought it was.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-29 12:27 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Tim Proctor wrote:
Sorry, but I don't think you're playing the same game I am.

I assumed you were responding to the "60 copies of the same card" idea, in which case you can never cast goblin guide and can never pay for the pacts. Pyro you could cast, but again - can't kill opponent.

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"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-29 1:31 pm 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 4:04 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Boston, MA
Kemev wrote:
I was trying to figure out which card wins if you play them head to head... I don't think anything beats Chancellor of the Dross though...


The Soul Spike deck actually beats it, since you don't die to their opener and they won't draw more gas but you will... but then that deck loses to Chancellor of the Forge. Like any incarnation of Magic, there is a bit of a metagame.

Also, updated the main post with everyone's finds.

_________________
Sygg, River Cutthroat: Ninjas, Rogues, Ophidians
Rosheen Meanderer: Hydras
Sapling of Colfenor: Toughness > Power
Riku: Pump Spells
Teneb: Life Manipulation
Kiki-Jiki: Big Red
Geth: Nim
Kodama of the North Tree: Hard Mode Voltron
Nin: Elementals
Sram: Jankstorm
Zur: Zombies
Rhys the Redeemed: Aura Voltron
Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh: Chandras
Ojutai, Soul of Winter: Tap Out Control
Alesha: Allies
Inalla: Treasures
Vial Smasher: Lava Axes
Atraxa: Counterless Keywords
Ludevic and Tymna: Curses


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-01 1:38 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
Coco wrote:
Kemev wrote:
I was trying to figure out which card wins if you play them head to head... I don't think anything beats Chancellor of the Dross though...


The Soul Spike deck actually beats it, since you don't die to their opener and they won't draw more gas but you will... but then that deck loses to Chancellor of the Forge. Like any incarnation of Magic, there is a bit of a metagame.


Ah, that's true... I forgot you could Soul Spike in response. But then Soul Spike loses to Leyline of Sanctity (mull to 1, then Soul Spike draws out first). Chancellor doesn't target, so it beats Leyline.

Also, Chancellor of the Forge is a worse aggro deck than Memnite.

Woo! Competitive metagame!

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-02 5:24 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-19 1:30 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
You need to take Sliver Hive off the list - it can't ever create those tokens.

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Useful threads: Colorless CI landsGraveyard HateRoR's Greatest Hits
My Decks: Zombiepocalypse (Thraximundar) ♦ Thrun stands alone (voltron) ♦ Ashling the Burninator ♦ Doran beatdown (treefolk/plant tribal) ♦ Mine! (UB theft/clone) ♦ Vampire Beatdown (Edgar Markov) ♦ BW Enchantments (Daxos the Returned)


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-03 4:19 am 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 4:04 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Boston, MA
Willbender wrote:
You need to take Sliver Hive off the list - it can't ever create those tokens.


Good catch.

_________________
Sygg, River Cutthroat: Ninjas, Rogues, Ophidians
Rosheen Meanderer: Hydras
Sapling of Colfenor: Toughness > Power
Riku: Pump Spells
Teneb: Life Manipulation
Kiki-Jiki: Big Red
Geth: Nim
Kodama of the North Tree: Hard Mode Voltron
Nin: Elementals
Sram: Jankstorm
Zur: Zombies
Rhys the Redeemed: Aura Voltron
Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh: Chandras
Ojutai, Soul of Winter: Tap Out Control
Alesha: Allies
Inalla: Treasures
Vial Smasher: Lava Axes
Atraxa: Counterless Keywords
Ludevic and Tymna: Curses


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: 60 Copies of the Same Card
AgePosted: 2018-Dec-03 5:02 am 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Kemev wrote:
But then Soul Spike loses to Leyline of Sanctity (mull to 1, then Soul Spike draws out first).


Given the challenge scenario, I feel compelled to point out that if allowed to Mulligan to 1, any deck (even a deck full of plains) would beat the target deck by simply having 59 draws instead of 55:

Quote:
So here are the rules of the experiment:
Your deck must consist of exactly 60 copies of the same card.
You must be able to beat (on the play and on the draw) a deck of 55 basic lands (you don't know which type) that always mulligans to zero, and plays a land each turn if possible.

_________________
Decks: Chaos colored dragons, Mathas, the Instigator (politics and mayhem).
Beloved precons: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice; Saskia the Unyielding; Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury.


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