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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: All Commanders have Partner
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-19 1:06 am 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Dragon
thaumaturge wrote:
intreped wrote:
...or Zedruu + Tuvasa...
Okay, now I'm sold!

No, I get it - if you're building around Zedruu's ability specifically but need access to B or G, that makes sense. From space's post it sounded, to me at least, like he just wanted a WURG group hug deck, which IMO could easily be built with the kings already.

Oh, for sure! You're not wrong in that interpretation at all. That's all true. But given this thought exercise I'd build a different flavor of WURG group hug using the style of, say, Zedruu + Selvala, Explorer Returned as my commanders, because I love both those cards and because I can.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: All Commanders have Partner
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-19 1:17 am 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 4:04 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Boston, MA
Who would be a good partner for Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch? I always felt like she had a cool ability but was in the worst colors for it to shine.

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Sapling of Colfenor: Toughness > Power
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Ojutai, Soul of Winter: Tap Out Control
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Inalla: Treasures
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Atraxa: Counterless Keywords
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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: All Commanders have Partner
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-19 1:23 am 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
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Coco wrote:
Who would be a good partner for Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch? I always felt like she had a cool ability but was in the worst colors for it to shine.

For sure. We'd want green-blue (Simic +1/+1 counter options) or green-white (Abzan +1/+1 counter options), or at the very least green for Jund.

Options that come to mind are: Ezuri, Claw of Progress, Experiment Kraj, Reyhan, Last of the Abzan, Daghatar the Adamant.

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Beloved precons: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice; Saskia the Unyielding; Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: All Commanders have Partner
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-19 2:51 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-30 12:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
spacemonaut wrote:
Oh, for sure! You're not wrong in that interpretation at all. That's all true. But given this thought exercise I'd build a different flavor of WURG group hug using the style of, say, Zedruu + Selvala, Explorer Returned as my commanders, because I love both those cards and because I can.

LOL, fair enough.

Coco wrote:
Who would be a good partner for Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch? I always felt like she had a cool ability but was in the worst colors for it to shine.
My first instinct was Marchesa, but with her, your creatures need to attack to get the +1/+1 counter, but need the +1/+1 counter to have haste, so that's a Catch-22 nonbo.

Really, though, I think the single card Exava wants access to the most has got to be Cathar's Crusade, so something with White would be my #1 priority. I personally prefer 3-color decks over 4-color decks as a general rule of thumb, so Boros or Orzhov or mono-White. Maybe the new Tajic or the mono-W Anafenza?

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: All Commanders have Partner
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-19 2:59 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
If Brawl had existed back when Exava came out, I would have suggested to pair her with Varolz.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: All Commanders have Partner
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-19 4:38 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
thaumaturge wrote:
Coco wrote:
Who would be a good partner for Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch? I always felt like she had a cool ability but was in the worst colors for it to shine.
My first instinct was Marchesa, but with her, your creatures need to attack to get the +1/+1 counter, but need the +1/+1 counter to have haste, so that's a Catch-22 nonbo.

Really, though, I think the single card Exava wants access to the most has got to be Cathar's Crusade, so something with White would be my #1 priority. I personally prefer 3-color decks over 4-color decks as a general rule of thumb, so Boros or Orzhov or mono-White. Maybe the new Tajic or the mono-W Anafenza?

Anafenza is nice but she'll rarely give haste to an actual threat with 5+ toughness. I think the most on-curve with highest synergy are Marath and Mikaeus, the Lunarch. Chorus of the Conclave's ability is probably the most useful with Exava, but it doesn't justify its high casting cost.

Adjusting the mana base to reliably hit turn 3 Marath, turn 4 Exava would be tricky, but there are many benefits of having access to green: Llanowar Reborn, Phantom Nishoba, Cytoplast Root-Kin, Inspiring Call, Ivorytusk Fortress, Gladehart Cavalry, Armorcraft Judge, Battlefront Krushok, Renegade Krasis, Loyal Guardian, Doubling Season, Primeval Protector, etc.

Turn 3 Mikaeus, turn 4 swing with Exava and tap Mikaeus to buff himself, turn 5 drop one or two aggressive weenies and pump everyone with Mikaeus, swing with them and Exava sounds nice.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: All Commanders have Partner
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-19 6:04 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-30 12:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Ooh, yeah, Varolz or White Mike both seem legit. Mike is definitely better than Anafenza here, I just forgot old dude existed!

The Varolz angle doesn't give us access to Cathars Crusade but it DOES give us Mazirek, which now has me envisioning a Jund Aristocrats-eque deck that clears the board with sac effects then beats down with a big Exava and/or Mazirek.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: All Commanders have Partner
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-19 6:32 pm 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Since it's 1 am, i will have to read this later to see if my answer was already taken.

But the first deck i would build would be Kess and Muldrotha. Valuuuuuuuuuuuuuueeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: All Commanders have Partner
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-20 1:05 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-30 12:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
LOL, somehow I strangely don't think a Kess+Muldrotha deck would actually be better than JUST a Kess deck or JUST a Muldrotha deck - they do similar things and compliment each other well but ultimately pull you in two different directions, as Kess wants a high spell count while Muldrotha wants a high permanent count. But, having said that, I'd still love to see it anyway, because two of my favorite things in the entire world are graveyard decks and value. It's exactly the type of deck I'm drawn to often: ill-advised but irresistible!

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: All Commanders have Partner
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-20 6:32 am 
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Joined: 2007-Mar-28 12:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Otaria
What about somehow pairing a commander-legal planeswalker with a body on-field? Something like Estrid, protecting Rafiq or Uril sounds plenty awful, and those are just the first two to come to mind...Lord Windgrace-powered Mimeoplasm or Muldrotha or Gitrog decks...

I'd probably try to fly off in a different direction. Something like Bird/Wizard "double tribal"? Kangee and Adeliz and/or Inalla?

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: All Commanders have Partner
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-20 11:35 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Jeyal wrote:
I'd probably try to fly off in a different direction. Something like Bird/Wizard "double tribal"? Kangee and Adeliz and/or Inalla?


Very nice. I wrote about that kind of idea a while ago.

Treamayne wrote:
... I propose that a Tribal EDH variant could provide that the creatures can match one of the General's types. As a test, I created a G Jedit Ojanen of Efrava "tribal" build - but since there aren't 30 cats in G (Only W and WU builds can have a cat general and meet 33 cats in their colors) I made it so that all creatures are either cats, warriors (or cat warriors). By expanding the definition to allow creatures of either type for a multi-type general, I think you can open up a whole slew of generals for tribal builds that couldn't be used before (though there are more than you would think that can do so without this twist)...

Edit: After testing, it should probably be 30 cards on-tribe; where creature type is treated like Color identity. So, a General can lead a deck for any creature type anywhere on the card (example: Thelon Fungus Tribal). Also, a card meets the criteria for on-tribe if it has the creature type anywhere (example: Diviner's Wand for a wizard deck, Knowledge Exploitation in a Rogue deck) and 30 cards should be on-tribe, not just creatures, to allow more flexibility.


Using that for this partner idea is great. It might also be an interesting way to limit a massive tribe. I think Rhys the Redeemed with Grand Warlord Radha could be an interesting Elf Warrior Tribal (only elves that are also warriors - and only tokens that are elf warrior).

For a split, I'm interested in Golem-Artificer via Sydri, Galvanic Genius and Glissa, the Traitor. Golem tribal really wants Bant colors so it can use all of the splicers (e.g. Maul splicer, Wing splicer and Sensor splicer), but there is nothing for golems even close to those colors. Since all of the splicers are artificers, I started with Sydri and looks for an appropriate way to add green (since the only G artificer - Oviya - is construct/servo and not golem).

Other ideas I thought of since my last post:
Pharika, and Kaseto for Sultai Snakes (not Naga)
Mishra, and Sen Triplets - just to see if I can cast their artifact staples to search out mine.
Ulrich, and Tolsimir for Wolves and werewolves to get the Naya colors they need.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: All Commanders have Partner
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-22 3:49 pm 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
thaumaturge wrote:
LOL, somehow I strangely don't think a Kess+Muldrotha deck would actually be better than JUST a Kess deck or JUST a Muldrotha deck - they do similar things and compliment each other well but ultimately pull you in two different directions, as Kess wants a high spell count while Muldrotha wants a high permanent count.

If you were going for the ebst possible, you just add one color to whichever you think is better, haha.

But i don't think you need higher counts of types for those commanders. If you don't mind a themeless boring value deck (i don't, but you don't know some people hate aimless goodstuff decks) though, you play all the digging/pitching spells. Grisly Salvage, Fact or Fiction, Faithless Looting, Windfall, Insidious Dreams (which is ridic with Windfall), etc. Plenty of spells and permanents.

Muldrotha and Karador then? heh.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: All Commanders have Partner
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-22 4:05 pm 
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Joined: 2017-Mar-11 6:43 am
Age: Dragon
To me- this belongs more in range of "Format Variations". I'm not particularly fond of this concept- though I certainly wouldn't mind cards that share the CZ, but have to work within the color identity of the actual Commander (there would be a sufficient opportunity cost to using a sub-Commander then- since even though you have a 98 card deck, it does cut into your spread. But the hypothetical card doesn't accidentally reduce the pool on raw utility or particularly high synergy with commanders)

A bigger problem than additional colors would more than likely be the usage of high utility commanders like Vendillion Clique or Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker that use the Command Zone for easy recursion. Like, even without expanding the color identity, having Kiki and Feldon share a Command Zone would go so far beyond the pale so often that the longterm effect likely involves signfiicantly shrinking the pool of worthwhile Commander combinations- because there is a a very real element of some Commanders already being stronger than relatives in their color identities that gets exacerbated by getting to combine two that synergize, auto-tutored into a special zone. Many niche Commanders that rely on redundancy in their deck to create a "song and dance"- get drowned out by variants using the same sub/tech commanders with the same kind of explosive power, but without the sufficient opportunity cost of having to play one in the 99, without the protection of "Commander-ness".

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment: All Commanders have Partner
AgePosted: 2018-Nov-15 3:47 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
It's always bothered me that 90% of Atraxa lists just go Superfriends; there are so many cool things you can do with her, from +1/+1 counters to -1/-1 counters, to experience counters with Meren, Daxos, and Ezuri all working together to buff each other, to energy counters. You can even ignore proliferate altogether and just go for a 'keywords matter' deck with Odric and Concerted Effort and Cairn Wanderer.

Anyway, one of the best -1/-1 counter effects is unfortunately outside of her colors, which made me think of this thread: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice + The Scorpion God


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