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 Post subject: Re: Guilds of Ravnica
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-19 7:33 am 
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Joined: 2014-Sep-30 6:38 am
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Anyone else kind of disappointed with this set?

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 Post subject: Re: Guilds of Ravnica
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-19 7:49 am 
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Age: Elder Dragon
OK folks who had "calls the set disappointing before they've even played with it" on their Bingo card?

Any have bingo yet?

I'm still waiting for the "This needs to be banned immediately" or "This creature is no good it dies to removal" to get mine....

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 Post subject: Re: Guilds of Ravnica
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-19 8:00 am 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 4:04 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Boston, MA
DarksteelElephant wrote:
Anyone else kind of disappointed with this set?


I am split on how to feel for this set, because I mostly play Commander and draft...

For Commander:
I like the new split cards and some of the new legendaries, but other than that there are very few cards I am planning on adding to decks.
I was kind of expecting to be disappointed (Commanderwise) when I saw the mechanics for this set, they are all basically variations on well received limited mechanics. Also pretty sad to have a multicolor set with no new duals.

For Limited:
This set looks amazing.

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 Post subject: Re: Guilds of Ravnica
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-19 8:09 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Viperion wrote:
OK folks who had "calls the set disappointing before they've even played with it" on their Bingo card?
In fairness, this entire set of 200+ new cards has me less hyped than the handful of new cards in C18.

But yes, 'hype' is only one measure of a set's value. Actually playing with the cards will give a far better sense of how good this set is. It will be interesting to see if it's a good limited format, as the last Ravnica blocks have set the bar pretty high in that respect.


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 Post subject: Re: Guilds of Ravnica
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-20 1:38 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-30 12:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Kinda surprised by some of the reactions here, honestly. My take on this set, so far, is that it's better than Return to Ravnica but not as good as OG Ravnica (but honestly will ANY set ever be as good as R:COG?).

I think the set is just chock-full of EDH-worthy cards. However, I also think that a decent portion of those EDH-worthy cards are just niche enough that if you don't have the right deck for them you won't care about them, so I can see that being a factor in tempering some excitement.

I also don't think the spread of new legendary creatures opens up a lot of new deckbuilding space. Some, yes, but not a ton. Both Boros commanders are very cool and I like them, but they sure as hell don't do anything unique.

That said, I'm pretty happy not to see another Cyclonic Rift here. That golgari removal spell is probably the closest thing to generic instant-staple in the set, but single-target removal is never going to be a big deal the way Rift is. And remember when everyone and their mother just hated Rite of Replication because it was THE most ubiquitous big Blue spell?

So, yeah, I'll happily take a set loaded with stuff that is "playable in the right deck" over stuff that's "auto-include in every blue deck no matter what". (Also, the Dimir stuff seems less shitty than usual, so that's a plus IMO.)

Let's talk about Crush Contraband for a second. Is this card better or worse than Return to Dust?

Return to Dust is a staple and pretty much the gold standard for single-use "Disenchant" spells. Would you run Crush Contraband over Return to Dust? Would you run both?

TO ME, Crush Contraband is roughly on par with Return to Dust. I can't think of a situation where I'd actually CUT RtD in favor of Contraband, but I also feel like if I have 8 total white decks and I have 4x of each of these two spells, I can pretty much one spell or the other interchangeably without much concern.

Now, say one of those decks is Boros, and, having access to Red, means that deck has a bit more hate for Artifacts than the others. This means I'd probably have a marginal push toward Return to Dust so I can hit two Enchantments, as my Vandalblasts and such will have the Artifact hate covered. Or, if I have a W/U control deck that REALLY wants to operate at Instant-speed as much as possible, I'd probably favor Crush over Dust because Dust comes with a very strong impetus to use at sorcery speed, a features which Crush does not have.

In short, I'm happy to have a very suitable alternative to Return to Dust, as I don't have 15x copies of it laying around. The fact that we have a new utility spell that is ON PAR with an older staple utility spell is still something I personally get excited about because I feel like it is getting rarer and rare these days to have new utility cards come out that compete with the old standards.

I'm the type of person who got really excited about Reclamation Sage because I was still running Stomphowler pretty constantly but Rec Sage just completely obsoleted Stomphowler (unless the deck cares about 4+ power or the Beast creature type of course). But now I just run Rec Sage 99.9% of the time and now IT is getting boring to always rely on.

My point is, I think EDH could use some more either/or options like Crush Contraband vs Return to Dust and less "one is always better than the other outside of niche situations like tribal themes" like Rec Sage vs Stomphowler. Even if the difference between RtD and CC are so negligible that they functionally feel almost indistinguishable, it's still a step in the right direction, I feel.

Now if only we could get even ONE new green ramp spell that could come close to competing with Sakura-Tribe Elder/Wood Elves and Kodama's Reach/Cultivate! Literally every set that comes out, I look for something that MIGHT give one of those four cards a reason to sit on the bench for once, but nope, disappointed every single time. Oh well.

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 Post subject: Re: Guilds of Ravnica
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-20 4:28 am 
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Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
If there is new ramp on par with STE I'd just run more ramp.

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 Post subject: Re: Guilds of Ravnica
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-20 4:42 am 
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Complete tangent, but talking about new ramp cards they do tend to go in the area of "niche but playable". For example, Nissa's Pilgrimage is really only playable in a mono-green deck, but in said deck it's close to strictly better than Cultivate/Kodama's Reach. Farseek then has the opposite deal, where it's arguably better than STE in a multicolor deck.

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 Post subject: Re: Guilds of Ravnica
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-20 5:32 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
What makes STE so good? Always saw it is rampant growth, which is basically unplayable imo. You can block once, sure. eh? Idk. I keep meaning to put it in my Mimeoplasm deck as a way to make sure i have bodies in the yard but i just don't often have a problem with that anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Guilds of Ravnica
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-20 5:39 am 
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Joined: 2007-Mar-28 12:38 pm
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Sovarius wrote:
What makes STE so good? Always saw it is rampant growth, which is basically unplayable imo. You can block once, sure. eh? Idk. I keep meaning to put it in my Mimeoplasm deck as a way to make sure i have bodies in the yard but i just don't often have a problem with that anyway.


It's an easier-to-recur Rampant Growth- -which likely pushes it over the edge. If I never have to see another "Meren brings back Tribe Elder" end step, I don't feel like I'd be missing anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Guilds of Ravnica
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-20 2:22 pm 
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Jeyal wrote:
Sovarius wrote:
What makes STE so good? Always saw it is rampant growth, which is basically unplayable imo. You can block once, sure. eh? Idk. I keep meaning to put it in my Mimeoplasm deck as a way to make sure i have bodies in the yard but i just don't often have a problem with that anyway.


It's an easier-to-recur Rampant Growth- -which likely pushes it over the edge. If I never have to see another "Meren brings back Tribe Elder" end step, I don't feel like I'd be missing anything.


This.

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 Post subject: Re: Guilds of Ravnica
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-21 8:30 am 
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Even ignoring that, it's pretty damn close to a "strictly better" Rampant Growth. It's Rampant Growth that also:

1. Gets recurred, cloned, tutored for, and occasionally even cheated out much easier.
2. Triggers the effects of cards like Soul of the Harvest and Ezuri, Claw of Progress
3. Triggers the effects of cards like Grave Pact and Harvester of Souls
4. Is another attacker for Craterhoof Behemoth and another blocker for Archetype of Finality
5. On the turn you use it, you can get a free block in

And even in the cases where none of that is relevant, it's still a Rampant Growth. Which, by the way, is a card that I would say is FAR from unplayable, and the only arguable reason it could be considered as such is because of the existence of cards like STE and Farseek that do essentially the same thing but better.

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 Post subject: Re: Guilds of Ravnica
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-21 11:23 am 
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Joined: 2017-Mar-11 6:43 am
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Well, late to the party- but my favorite feature of Steve is that he allows you to stagger your extra land-drops whether you're looking to recur him or not (and while that's certainly one of elements of his insane goodness- it's sortof... bigger than that.)

What I mean, is that Steve lets you "bank" your extra land-drop based on what's in your hand, which is just as good when you need to accelerate into casting something more expensive in your hand- or when you're worried about missing the next turn's landdrop; outright letting you offset the effect of a missed land-drop if you don't immediately need the acceleration (where often you won't.) Rampant Growth only allows you accelerate or pay 2 mana to get around a missed land drop. I wouldn't say that one is better or worse than the other (though, I would say that Rampant Growth is outclassed by Nature's Lore and Farseek- but Steve isn't.) It's the sheer flexibility in banking your land-drops and being a present body that makes Steve what he is.

With all of that in mind though, I have decks with neither Rampant nor Steve, but having Forests because recurring Yavimaya Elder and Wood Elves is just contextually so much more powerful.

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 Post subject: Re: Guilds of Ravnica
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-21 12:11 pm 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 4:04 pm
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So it seems like what I am hearing is that Sakura-Tribe Elder is the best card in Guilds of Ravnica. I'll have to make sure to get one at the Prerelease.

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Rosheen Meanderer: Hydras
Sapling of Colfenor: Toughness > Power
Riku: Pump Spells
Teneb: Life Manipulation
Kiki-Jiki: Big Red
Geth: Nim
Kodama of the North Tree: Hard Mode Voltron
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 Post subject: Re: Guilds of Ravnica
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-22 3:31 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
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Location: New Hampshire
Coco wrote:
So it seems like what I am hearing is that Sakura-Tribe Elder is the best card in Guilds of Ravnica. I'll have to make sure to get one at the Prerelease.

I didn't think Steve was in Guilds of Ravnica... isn't he a Kamigawa card?

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 Post subject: Re: Guilds of Ravnica
AgePosted: 2018-Sep-22 3:44 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Coco wrote:
So it seems like what I am hearing is that Sakura-Tribe Elder is the best card in Guilds of Ravnica. I'll have to make sure to get one at the Prerelease.

I didn't think Steve was in Guilds of Ravnica... isn't he a Kamigawa card?

The joke is that this GRN thread has become taken over by discussion of STE.


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