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 Post subject: Re: Is there any rare card more useless than Awakened Amalgam?
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-03 7:30 am 
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Location: New Hampshire
illuknisaa wrote:
Cancel costs one mana less and always trades with a card. Same cannot be said for Amalgam. Cancel that sometimes costs only one mana is actually pretty decent option for aggressive decks that play blue (Edric and Marchesa come to mind).


Comparing a creature to a counterspell is a pretty useless thought experiment IMO. You're basically saying Cancel is better than Amalgam because Cancel is countermagic, and that's just silly. It's true Amalgam doesn't always trade with a card... but sometimes it can trade with many cards (if your opponent has to chump it repeatedly) and there's the fact that Cancel is not going to win the game, which Amalgam might do. And while yes, turn 4 it's probably not that big, let's not forget that it's often going to be quite large - people like to play non-basics that do neat stuff, so it's often going to end up 8/8 or 10/10 or even larger. People play Lord of Extinction in EDH... this might not be as good a beatstick in most situations, but it doesn't have color requirements and comes down a turn earlier. It also doesn't die when someone pops Relic of Progenitus.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there any rare card more useless than Awakened Amalgam?
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-03 12:48 pm 
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Rarities aside, this is still one of the most terrible cards I've seen (though that Wood Elemental is pretty bad)

Razor Boomerang


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 Post subject: Re: Is there any rare card more useless than Awakened Amalgam?
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-03 4:24 pm 
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Necrachilles wrote:
Rarities aside, this is still one of the most terrible cards I've seen (though that Wood Elemental is pretty bad)

Razor Boomerang


Agreed. That is a pretty terribad card. 2 to cast 1 to equip would probably have made it OK, at least for limited. 1 and 1 and it's actually reasonably strong, especially in Zen/WW limited, where a lot of the creatures were weenies. That was one of the most aggressive limited formats ever.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there any rare card more useless than Awakened Amalgam?
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-03 11:19 pm 

Joined: 2014-Apr-03 3:46 am
Age: Drake
Sid the Chicken wrote:
illuknisaa wrote:
Cancel costs one mana less and always trades with a card. Same cannot be said for Amalgam. Cancel that sometimes costs only one mana is actually pretty decent option for aggressive decks that play blue (Edric and Marchesa come to mind).


Comparing a creature to a counterspell is a pretty useless thought experiment IMO. You're basically saying Cancel is better than Amalgam because Cancel is countermagic, and that's just silly. It's true Amalgam doesn't always trade with a card... but sometimes it can trade with many cards (if your opponent has to chump it repeatedly) and there's the fact that Cancel is not going to win the game, which Amalgam might do. And while yes, turn 4 it's probably not that big, let's not forget that it's often going to be quite large - people like to play non-basics that do neat stuff, so it's often going to end up 8/8 or 10/10 or even larger. People play Lord of Extinction in EDH... this might not be as good a beatstick in most situations, but it doesn't have color requirements and comes down a turn earlier. It also doesn't die when someone pops Relic of Progenitus.


Very few people actually play Lord of Extinction and lord gets far bigger more easily than Amalgam.

If you play a colorless deck you can't really ramp into Amalgam with artifact mana and you have better plays like thran dynamo you could do instead.

If you have one or more colors there are so many better 4 drops you could play instead (not counting all the good colorless cards).

If you have a really nonbasic heavy five color deck why not just play Progenitus instead?

Not having any keyword ability really kills the Amalgam.


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 Post subject: Re: Is there any rare card more useless than Awakened Amalgam?
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-03 11:48 pm 
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illuknisaa wrote:
Not having any keyword ability really kills the Amalgam.
Yeah I hear there's this really bad vanilla creature called Tarmogoyf as well. Thing is like a 4/5 for two. It's awful.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there any rare card more useless than Awakened Amalgam?
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-04 12:45 am 
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Awakened Amalgam is on my list of cards to use when I get around to making an Artifact-heavy deck.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there any rare card more useless than Awakened Amalgam?
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-04 3:29 am 
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Viperion wrote:
illuknisaa wrote:
Not having any keyword ability really kills the Amalgam.
Yeah I hear there's this really bad vanilla creature called Tarmogoyf as well. Thing is like a 4/5 for two. It's awful.


Technically, neither Awakened Amalgam nor Tarmogoyf are Vanilla creatures; since, by definition, a Vanilla creature is one with nothing in its textbox except flavortext. French Vanilla, has only one keyword ability and flavortext.

Either way, I think Amalgam is fine without a keyword. If it had trample or something it probably would have been costed at 5 instead of 4; and that would have been a shame.

Examples:
Matca Rioters - 3cmc - capped at 5/5 max - no keywords (domain ability word)
Wilderness Elemental - 3cmc - Power only, based on opponent(s) - Trample
Zendikar Incarnate - 4cmc - Power only, total number of lands - no keywords
Drift of the Dead - 4cmc - Number of snow lands - Defender
Dakkon Blackblade - 6cmc - Number of lands - no keywords
Rubblehulk - 6cmc - Number of lands - no keywords (bloodrush ability word)
Ulvenwald Hydra - 6cmc - Number of lands - reach
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer - 7cmc - Number of lands - Trample


While Ulvenwald Hydra shows that power creep allows for more at 6cmc with variable power/toughness templates, think 4cmc without color requirements is acceptable for the Amalgam.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there any rare card more useless than Awakened Amalgam?
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-04 3:52 am 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Orlando, Florida
You want to see useless rares that are much worse than the Amalgam?

Avizoa
Assembly Hall
Anaba Ancestor
Goblin Hero
Blessing
Dubious Challenge
Midnight Oil
Abyssal Hunter
Aether Rift


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 Post subject: Re: Is there any rare card more useless than Awakened Amalgam?
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-04 5:11 am 
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Marit Lage wrote:

Dubious Challenge and Midnight Oil are probably not so useless.

A friend of mine uses Dubious Challenge in a buddy-up deck wonderfully. It's a Tasigur, the Golden Fang EDH deck that chooses a buddy and uses mutually beneficial cards and effects. In exchange, the buddy helps out with mutually beneficial "opponent chooses" effects, like this one or Tasigur's ability. There is no catch at all; the Tasigur deck is there to help the buddy win or win itself if the buddy can't. Everyone including the buddy usually believes there is a catch, and everyone else is trying to convince the buddy there's a catch and they should turn against Tasigur. It is very fun to watch people psyche each other or themselves out over it, and especially fun (& patience-trying) when the buddy is the most inebriated person at the table.

Midnight Oil came into a meta that featured Madness and Flashback, and was a Harmless Offering target to replace Demonic Pact. It was also followed up by a couple of Hellbent-ish cards in Amonkhet, like Hazoret. It wasn't super competitive, but it was made for some Jennies & Johnnies who wanted to make a card like that really come to life.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there any rare card more useless than Awakened Amalgam?
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-04 7:10 am 

Joined: 2014-Apr-03 3:46 am
Age: Drake
Viperion wrote:
illuknisaa wrote:
Not having any keyword ability really kills the Amalgam.
Yeah I hear there's this really bad vanilla creature called Tarmogoyf as well. Thing is like a 4/5 for two. It's awful.


Why did you even make this comment? This literally adds nothing to the conversation.

If you people want make a compelling argument why Awakened Amalgam is a playable card at least provide a deck where you would play Amalgam and tell why you would play it over other cards.

Just because there are other unplayable cards doesn't mean Amalgam is a playable one.


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 Post subject: Re: Is there any rare card more useless than Awakened Amalgam?
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-04 8:17 am 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-19 1:30 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Marit Lage wrote:
You want to see useless rares that are much worse than the Amalgam?

Dubious Challenge

Except it becomes good if combined with flicker effects, such as Flickerwisp or Glimmerpoint Stag.

"Ok, you've got your choice - Flickerwisp or Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre - what do you get, and what do I get?"

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 Post subject: Re: Is there any rare card more useless than Awakened Amalgam?
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-04 10:10 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
illuknisaa wrote:
Very few people actually play Lord of Extinction and lord gets far bigger more easily than Amalgam.

Big fat things get played. Not being superior to LoE is irrelevant.

illuknisaa wrote:
If you play a colorless deck you can't really ramp into Amalgam with artifact mana and you have better plays like thran dynamo you could do instead.

Why are we assuming it has to be played on curve? Why not drop it turn 12, probably as a 10/10, maybe put some equipment or something on it, and start swinging?

illuknisaa wrote:
If you have one or more colors there are so many better 4 drops you could play instead (not counting all the good colorless cards).

illuknisaa wrote:
Just because there are other unplayable cards doesn't mean Amalgam is a playable one.

Just because there are other playable cards doesn't make Amalgam unplayable either.

illuknisaa wrote:
If you have a really nonbasic heavy five color deck why not just play Progenitus instead?

In that highly specific scenario it's likely Progenitus is already your general. Or you're playing slivers and don't want a non-sliver. I fail to see what the existence of Progenitus has to do with anything.

illuknisaa wrote:
Not having any keyword ability really kills the Amalgam.

As with any large thing, there's really only 3 keywords you might want it to have - Trample, Flying and maybe Lifelink. You wouldn't have been looking at it with Vigilance, or something like Extort, and said "WOW! THAT CARD IS GREAT!". Fortunately there are plenty of ways to give your creatures abilities if you want.

At the end of the day, if you don't like the card, you don't like the card, but you not liking it does not make it the worst rare in its own set, let alone the worst rare you could have.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there any rare card more useless than Awakened Amalgam?
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-04 11:59 am 
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A list of generals that I think could easily be happy playing Amalgam:

Animar, Soul of Elements, Maelstrom Wanderer, Surrak Dragonclaw, The Gitrog Monster, Rakdos, Lord of Riots, Mina and Denn, Wildborn, Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim, Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord, Brion Stoutarm, Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer, Kruphix, God of Horizons, Prime Speaker Zegana, Sharuum the Hegemon, Sydri, Galvanic Genius, Dakkon Blackblade, Halfdane, Ruhan of the Fomori, Alesha, Who Smiles at Death, Breya, Etherium Shaper, and Saskia the Unyielding. Also any partner combination that includes Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder, Akiri, Line-Slinger, Silas Renn, Seeker Adept, or Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there any rare card more useless than Awakened Amalgam?
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-04 3:13 pm 
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Age: Elder Dragon
illuknisaa wrote:
Viperion wrote:
illuknisaa wrote:
Not having any keyword ability really kills the Amalgam.
Yeah I hear there's this really bad vanilla creature called Tarmogoyf as well. Thing is like a 4/5 for two. It's awful.
Why did you even make this comment? This literally adds nothing to the conversation.

Because you've clearly made up your mind on this one and so no amount of conversation is going to change it.

Tarmogoyf is a big/big with no abilities; Awakened Amalagam is a big/big with no abilities. Obv 2 is much better than 4 and I'm not claiming that AA is better or even anywhere as good as the 'goyf; but you are set on your position even though it's been demonstrated that it's not even the worst rare in the set; I'm merely trying to provide a mostly-comparable example that shows you the error in your thinking.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there any rare card more useless than Awakened Amalgam?
AgePosted: 2018-Feb-05 6:39 am 

Joined: 2013-Jun-23 10:18 am
Age: Elder Dragon
illuknisaa wrote:
Swmystery wrote:

You've chosen a very odd example here. Even from the same set, there are significantly worse rares- Sphinx's Decree, Silverclad Ferocidons, Admiral's Order...like, Amalgam isn't great but it's hardly the poster child for "useless card in my rare slot".


Literally all of these cards are far better than Amalgam.

Sphinx's Decree is a pretty bad silence impression but it affects all opponents until your next turn. Essentially countering all wraths which cards like heroic intervention and boros charm can't do.

Silverclad Ferocidons is really expensive but this is not in the top 10 worst dinos list and 8 power means Ferocidons can quite effectively trade with most creatures.

Admiral's Order is cancel with upside and basically any removal is better than a horrible vanilla creature.


You're either trolling or unusually bad at card evaluation. In what world is a rare version of Cancel, an actual common printed to infinity, better than an 8/8 or 10/10 or 12/12 for 4 colourless mana?

Swmystery wrote:
As for what to do with Amalgam? Stick a Rancor or Sword of X&Y on it and start beating faces with your undercosted attacker. Or just draw it in the mid to late game in your five-colour deck and enjoy the 8/8 or 10/10 for cheap? That seems pretty good by itself.

You can do this with anything else. The opportunity cost is just massive compared to what you get with amalgam.


You can, but those "anything else" won't generally be as large or as cheap for their power/toughness ratio. That's the point.

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