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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jul-01 1:47 pm 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Making 2/2 token zombies is not the same as making a token copy.

This makes zombies because theyre supposed to be mummies, and this ancient egypt inspired world is doing that a lot. It copies because thats what blue does.

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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jul-01 8:21 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
And the mummy making on this world is white and black. You're not helping your case there. And this is still true:
Quote:
Ask some random magic player what colour "exile a creature from a graveyard and make a zombie token of it" is, and 19 out of 20 will say black.

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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jul-01 9:30 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Aug-13 2:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Viperion wrote:
Hour of Eternity makes complete sense at XXBBB..... why on earth would this spell be XXUUU?

Choose something blue for the blue hour!

Because it's a mass-eternalize, and eternalize is a mostly blue or white ability.

In a Bolas-dominated world based on death and reanimation, you need to stretch the color pie a little bit and move some otherwise typical black abilities into other colors. Like in Innistrad, where we had blue zombies and red vampires, and where every color cared at least a little about what was in your graveyard.

But I agree with you, in most other sets, a card like this would have been black.

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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jul-02 12:20 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
Is it bad that I prefer to think of Hour of Eternity as blue/black, rather than blue OR black? It's much the same way that I think of, say, Honored Hydra as green/white. My own particular take on color identity classifies token color as part of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jul-02 3:58 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Viperion wrote:
And the mummy making on this world is white and black. You're not helping your case there. And this is still true:
Quote:
Ask some random magic player what colour "exile a creature from a graveyard and make a zombie token of it" is, and 19 out of 20 will say black.

As said before Eternalize is mostly white blue in the second set. Black, red, and green get one card each.

As for what players think... Who cares? Popular expectations dont dictate what cards can or cant do.

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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jul-02 4:00 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Skyknight wrote:
Is it bad that I prefer to think of Hour of Eternity as blue/black, rather than blue OR black? It's much the same way that I think of, say, Honored Hydra as green/white. My own particular take on color identity classifies token color as part of it.

No. In any other set it probably would have been UB or dropped the exile and zombie portions.

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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jul-02 4:32 am 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Viperion wrote:
And the mummy making on this world is white and black. You're not helping your case there. And this is still true:
Quote:
Ask some random magic player what colour "exile a creature from a graveyard and make a zombie token of it" is, and 19 out of 20 will say black.


Yeah because you're qualifying it with ZOMBIE rather than TOKEN. The Zombie portion is inherent to Amonkhet and is entirely flavor based. You're intentionally asking a leading question rather than asking based on the ability. As others have said, popular opinion doesn't change that the ability is fully within blue just flavored as a zombie card.


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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jul-04 2:06 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Epsilon wrote:
Viperion wrote:
And the mummy making on this world is white and black. You're not helping your case there. And this is still true:
Quote:
Ask some random magic player what colour "exile a creature from a graveyard and make a zombie token of it" is, and 19 out of 20 will say black.


Yeah because you're qualifying it with ZOMBIE rather than TOKEN. The Zombie portion is inherent to Amonkhet and is entirely flavor based. You're intentionally asking a leading question rather than asking based on the ability. As others have said, popular opinion doesn't change that the ability is fully within blue just flavored as a zombie card.

I'm with Epsilon on this one - Back from the Brink is blue, and mechanically this is very similar.

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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jul-04 5:35 am 

Joined: 2013-Sep-05 6:26 am
Age: Drake
Sid the Chicken wrote:
I'm with Epsilon on this one - Back from the Brink is blue, and mechanically this is very similar.

I don't think that's the best example. Back from the Brink doesn't match blue's colour pie. It was allowed because of the flavour of the Innistrad set.


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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jul-04 10:13 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Wilkinsbane wrote:
Sid the Chicken wrote:
I'm with Epsilon on this one - Back from the Brink is blue, and mechanically this is very similar.

I don't think that's the best example. Back from the Brink doesn't match blue's colour pie. It was allowed because of the flavour of the Innistrad set.


Then it's a perfect example, isn't it?

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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Jul-31 11:01 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Yeah guys, why isn't The Scarab God monoblack? The scry text, I guess?

Edit: Okay, I'm being cheeky. Blue has long dealt with zombies, (Drowned is from The dark), and has long had graveyard play (Recall, Body Double, River Kelpie, the Unearth mechanic in Shards, etc.)

My point is this is not especially ridiculous. It's no more ridiculous than Roar of the Wurm, really. Maybe given how much sense the other Hours make, Hour of Eternity was just the last one holding the spot.

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 Post subject: Re: Hour of Devastation
AgePosted: 2017-Aug-01 9:52 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Aug-13 2:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Mark Rosewater addresses the color of Hour of Eternity in his latest article:
Quote:
When the Council of Colors looks at cards to see if they are acceptable within the color pie, they give each card a grade it from 1 to 4. A grade of 1 means a card is within the color's normal slice of the color pie. A 2 means it's a bit of a stretch but it makes sense in the set that it's in. A 3 means it's a bit of a stretch and doesn't fit within the set it's in. Finally, 4 means it's clearly not in that color's slice of the color pie. For shorthand, 1 is "normal," 2 is "an acceptable bend," 3 is "an unacceptable bend," and 4 is "a break."

Hour of Eternity is a great example of the separation between a 2 and a 3, or an acceptable and unacceptable bend. Blue traditionally does not mess with creatures in graveyards. Blue usually gets back instants and/or sorceries and artifacts on occasion. When we made embalm, our solution to solve memory and counter issues was to have the card make a creature token that's a copy of the creature card. Cloning is pretty squarely in blue, so it pushed embalm more toward blue.

In Hour of Devastation, we tweaked embalm with eternalize. Also, we tied the Eternal army to Bolas's three colors (blue, black, and red). Hour of Eternity essentially eternalizes all the creature cards in your graveyard. Eternalize is partly blue. Some of the Eternals are blue. Cloning the dead is kind of blue. In this place at this time, the mechanic made sense in blue, but if we tried to make this same spell in another set, it very well could shift from a 2 to a 3 and not be printable.

So yes, this is blue messing in black space, but in a way that, for this set, makes sense.

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