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 Post subject: Re: Card Prices
AgePosted: 2017-Jul-25 10:27 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Well, I think the reserved list is an entirely different discussion.
The problem is not any one party or practice, but lets look at Force of Will as an example.

Prior to Eternal Masters Speculators bought it up. This was a relatively safe bet because WotC is known to be stingy with anything that can be reprinted and actually matters. FoW being in Eternal masters increased demand (as more new players are exposed) far more than it added to supply. Result, despite reprinting it is less accessible and more expensive than it was prior to EMA (though still below it's all time high, which came down without a reprint). Now, if they would give Modern or Eternal Masters a print run like Chronicles, they night be on to something. For the cards that matter, it still won't tank the value (long term) since demand will always be rising long after any length of print run ends.

In my happy magical Christmas-land, I would like to see something like the MTGO prize packs created. Some qty (e.g. 150 cards) of an all reprint, not balanced for packs or draft, pack (8 or 10 cards) with things ranging from Eater of the Dead to Tarmogoyf. Chase reprints would have drop rates similar or lower than Expeditions. These packs could be added to sealed product (Say 1 pack per Commander or Duel deck box) maybe used as event prizes. One third of the list would be "rotate" out on a regular basis. I think this could trickle reprints into circulation; allow new players a wide exposure to older, niche, cards (that might need a new frame), increase access to things that would never see print anywhere else and create more excitement for sealed product without the "buy all Mind Seize decks because they have TNN" frenzy.

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 Post subject: Re: Card Prices
AgePosted: 2017-Jul-25 11:19 am 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
I dig the rotating reprint pack in commander product a lot. Increase supply and add a little extra incentive to buying the precon(s). People won't cry foul (as such a thing wouldn't involve reserved list, presumably.)

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 Post subject: Re: Card Prices
AgePosted: 2017-Jul-25 11:29 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
kirkusjones wrote:
I dig the rotating reprint pack in commander product a lot. Increase supply and add a little extra incentive to buying the precon(s). People won't cry foul (as such a thing wouldn't involve reserved list, presumably.)


No, just stuff that would not be likely to see reprint anywhere else with a small smattering of reprint eligible money cards (FoW, Tarmogoyf, etc) that could use some extra circulation and to add excitement to the idea. Since they would be prize-packs and/or includes for sealed product - you don't have to worry about draft balance or anything else. Just give us some cool nostalgia while helping circulation.

I would love for new players to learn the joys of niche things like Phyrexian Splicer (cool, old tech), Nature's Blessing (would not normally get a reprint due to retired keyword), Tin-Wing Chimera and friends (would not get a reprint because of non-standard +2/+2 counter) and many other things that are neither reserved, nor would ever otherwise see the light of day again ([cough]Snowlands[/cough]).

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HK

Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: Card Prices
AgePosted: 2017-Jul-25 5:47 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Dec-26 7:50 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Amsterdam, Holland
A risk with such packs could be all the stuff they don't reprint. Right now a new player doesn't know about Phyrexian Splicer and probably has little incentive to look at Tempest, but it might trigger more interest in old cards, increasing prices of non-reprinted cards, which are currently only desired by people that know Ghost Town exists, for example. This is in a way similar to creating Modern as a format, it looks affordable, players jump in and suddenly everything spikes. Many cards just don't have higher prices because not enough people know them. I have nothing against your goal with these, but, what I fear is that it will have a much broader impact than just making those cards more widely available.

For every Force of Will there's a card for which the price gets destroyed by a reprint. Take for example Sigil of the Empty Throne, Dragonmaster Outcast or Abrupt Decay. Demand is indeed likely to rise indefinitely (as long as we get new players in), but the number in circulation doesn't dwindle quickly. What you would expect is this: for a given card there are X copies in circulation, with demand A, then the card gets reprinted and you'll have X+Y copies in circulation with demand going to A+B, only when X/A > (X+Y)/(A+B) is true would you expect the price to rise beyond what it originally was. This means that demand must at least grow in proportion to the number of copies added for the price to remain similar. This only happens when either the number added through reprint is very low or the increased demand for the card is very high. For Force this may very well be true, but it's not necessarily a general truth. Of course if you wait long enough B will likely keep rising while X and Y slowly go down, so barring another reprint or reduced interest in the card for other reasons you do expect a gradual, albeit slow, rise.

The larger issue here is that players want to have access to cards they can't afford. I can certainly understand that desire: you see other players do all this cool stuff and you want to do that too! But this lies at the root of the complaints about card prices. If we reprint Force of Will into oblivion today there will be another card that takes its place tomorrow, this desire is endless. It's human nature I guess, but it's one reason why there aren't easy fixes for the issue of cards being priced higher than you're comfortable with. After 19+ years of active trading, buying collections and reselling them, I can tell you that there will still remain cards to desire that are out of reach (far fewer than there once were, but still many).

(My view on the Reserved List is that Wizards can't afford to break the promise and ruin customer confidence, regardless of whether people want them to or not, it's not at all about the vocal minority who are against it for financial reasons. I don't want Wizards to break their promise and ruin customer confidence).

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 Post subject: Re: Card Prices
AgePosted: 2017-Jul-26 2:30 am 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
Here's the thing though, isn't the "customer confidence" predicated on a promise that ensures financial value? With stuff like power, the sheer rarity of the original print run and the nostalgia value would help shore up their prices should a reprint (and in my opinion, the Reserved List should apply only to power because of their iconic and nostalgic status) ever occur. Birds of Paradise has been reprinted how many times? Yet the TCG mid price for an Alpha Birds is 2k and mid for beta is $500. I am not asking for Chronicles style reprints of any card. But a more flexible and responsible reprint policy could easily be enacted. Yes, the collectors and speculators may whine, but this is a trading card game. What other hobby guarantees the value of its product based on a "gentlemen's agreement"? We've been coddled as players into believing we are entitled to an artificially created value in our hobby, which like any other hobby, should be seen as a sunk cost. The problem can only be solved by a paradigm shift in the way many players of this game think about their collections, but as long as there are a few people who will cry "but muh investment" when Wizards considers making a change to bolster the health of eternal formats that shift won't be able to happen. This is probably the wrong site to argue about the Reserved List (and reprints in general) on, solely because one of the major strengths of EDH is the vastness of the card pool and often work arounds and feasible, though less efficient alternatives can be found.

TL;DR: a responsible and flexible reprint policy is vital to the health of the game. There are numerous alternatives on the spectrum between Chronicles and the current and outdated policy.

_________________
specter404 wrote:
Basically, when it comes to commander, I want you to stab me through the heart, not cut off my balls.

Gath Immortal wrote:
Twenty Kavus and a Dream is not a legacy deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Card Prices
AgePosted: 2017-Jul-26 11:39 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Dec-26 7:50 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Amsterdam, Holland
I'm happy to discuss with you on the RL, but I don't think we should do it in this topic. I'll PM you a reply.

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I'm a gabber and I feel alright
I sleep all day and I dance all night
I'm a gabber and I feel OK
I dance all night and I sleep all day


3 Steps Ahead - I'm A Gabber


Automatically add card tags to the card names in any text:
http://manabase.com/autocard.php


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