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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-15 9:14 am 
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Joined: 2014-Aug-16 4:42 am
Age: Wyvern
All the blue answers kind of make me wonder: Why aren't you just countering it?


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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-15 11:49 am 
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Age: Elder Dragon
iplaymtg wrote:
All the blue answers kind of make me wonder: Why aren't you just countering it?

I can only answer for me, but I avoid counterspells in EDH. I would rather advance my board (aka "play") than prevent others from advancing their's (aka "prevent play"). Rarely a niche, very on theme one will sneak into a deck (e.g. Mystic Snake or Geist Snatch in my snake and spirit decks respectively), but I don't rely on counters as a game-plan.

Part of this is just a philosophical choice, part of this is probably ingrained by MTGO because there are some things that will cause "children" to rage quit with one innocuous instance, and counterspells are one of those common triggers.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-15 12:09 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Drrakus wrote:
The best answer to Cyclonic Rift, in my opinion, is actually Perplexing Chimera, to either sneak it in or find a way to give it flash.

This does not work. Perplexing Chimera's ability is a trigger, so if it isn't already in plain view on the battlefield before the Rift is cast, it doesn't do anything. But if it is out before the Rift is cast, it's a really good deterrent. Pretty hard to justify giving an opponent a free Cyclonic Rift only for them to recast their Chimera next turn.
page04z wrote:
Jeyal wrote:
This is my dream response, have yet to hit it.

This is not any better than Reverberate in this situation, unless we are talking about non-overloaded Rift?

Dispel, Spell Snare, Guttural Response, Red Elemental Blast, Pyroblast. They pay 7, you pay 1. Not the cleverest counter to Rift, but it's certainly efficient.

Commandeer is a strong answer, although whichever cost you pay for it, it's pretty steep.

Oblivion Stone can make Rift less amazing.

Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir / Uba Mask / Elkin Lair / Possibility Storm / Dosan the Falling Leaf can limit when it can be played.

Praetor's Grasp and other Seek effects, but that's obviously just an "answer" to anything.

Stormfront Riders is a great, under-utilized card, and allows you to at least have a few chump blockers, maybe even a relevant army.

Alchemist's Refuge or Yeva, Nature's Herald or even Shimmer Myr can help you rebuild a little bit faster, if your mana was untapped when Rift was cast (Refuge and Shimmer Myr especially, as you can chain mana rocks into more mana rocks).


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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-15 12:51 pm 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Maluko wrote:
niheloim wrote:
Don't over extend. Make sure your mana base isnt just efficient rocks so you can replay significant threats. Apply pressure so that you're game plan isnt completely restarted.

these are good answers.

These are not good answers to an incoming Cyclonic Rift, this is just good gameplay strategy. Don't overextend as to not lose too much resources in case of mass removal; don't overextended as to not paint a target in your head earlier than you should; don't play too many mana rocks because artifact removal is now everywhere; etc. I'm not saying they don't help, but if an opponent has a powerful board presence, and suddenly decides to cast a winning Rift, these won't save you the game.

They're better than hoping you have a cute fog variant or counterspell.

Playing so as not to lose to a cyclonic rift is the best way to not lose to a cyclonic rift.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-15 1:51 pm 

Joined: 2016-Aug-15 1:21 pm
Age: Drake
niheloim wrote:
They're better than hoping you have a cute fog variant or counterspell.


This is the reason I rarely have to deal with any field wipe being a problem. Spore Frog is the #1 most tutored for and reanimated card in my play group. My play group's meta means that every deck that can run Holy Day/Darkness/Fog/Kami of False Hope/Spore Frog runs it, and the few reanimator decks can bring back a Spore Frog pretty much every turn.

Sad part is that graveyard hate doesn't always work, because of how much value is put on Spore Frog (it's easier to get back then Fog). Most of the time it's a fight to get it stay in the graveyard long enough to get exiled. My play group goes out of their way to keep the little demon safe, because of how many different things he can counter (including Cyclonic Rift).

The only good answer I've found for Spore Frog is to either run it myself or use Kami of False Hope whenever possible. Frog beats Fog every time.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-15 1:57 pm 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Spore frog? I love it!

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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-15 2:17 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Spore Frog doesn't counter EOT Rift, untap and swing though

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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-15 3:07 pm 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Rift is one of the most overrated cards in the format.

Don't overextend - They aren't as likely to burn it to bounce a couple guys coming their way and this is just common sense since you'll get blown out by ANY board wipe if you just throw out every card you can as soon as possible.

Don't let them get to a point where they can use it offensively by wrathing regularly and keeping pressure up. This keeps them from being able to use it as an extremely overcosted "creature's cant block this turn" which tends to be the most complained about mode. He payed 7 mana for a 2-4 mana effect. Why are you complaining? There are dozens of cheaper spells that would have lead to your death in the same board state. Wipe the board.

Run discard or other forms of hand disruption - people tend to sandbag cards to try and get the "optimal play" out of them. Force them to use it or lose it early and it won't be a problem.

Phasing - Vanishing, Teferi's Veil, etc will effectively blank all removal used on you especially those "EOT rift" plays or at the very least force them to use it at a time that's beneficial to you.

Always spring the trap. People are going to play cards that you have to deal with. Force them to do it on your terms rather than let them control you. Leaving him alone or attacking elsewhere so he doesn't rift is exactly what he wants to happen and is almost always the wrong move.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-15 3:09 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Aug-13 2:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Maluko wrote:
Malekoda wrote:
Maluko wrote:
Why haven't they printed a single card yet that deals with bounce spells? Literally not one card.

Apart from all those creatures with backbreaking EtB-effects.

I'm sure they will be very useful when your opponent gets rid of your entire board at instant speed and threatens to destroy you with the huge card advantage he just got...

If your claim is that Wizards haven't been busy printing cards that deal with one specific seven-mana bounce spell, then you're correct.

If your claim is that Wizards haven't printed any cards that deal with the general category of bounce spells, then you're incorrect.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-15 3:12 pm 

Joined: 2017-May-09 1:04 pm
Age: Wyvern
intreped wrote:
page04z wrote:
Jeyal wrote:
This is my dream response, have yet to hit it.

This is not any better than Reverberate in this situation, unless we are talking about non-overloaded Rift?


Why is this "not any better"? It will copy the overload. An overloaded spell on the stack has its text changed, so copying it will copy that changed text.

Copying an overloaded cyclonic rift will give you a copy of an overloaded cyclonic rift, returning all their permanents also.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-15 3:19 pm 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
page04z wrote:
intreped wrote:
This is not any better than Reverberate in this situation, unless we are talking about non-overloaded Rift?


Why is this "not any better"? It will copy the overload. An overloaded spell on the stack has its text changed, so copying it will copy that changed text.

Copying an overloaded cyclonic rift will give you a copy of an overloaded cyclonic rift, returning all their permanents also.


Because you paid 4 mana for exactly the same effect as reverberate? You can't change targets when there aren't any and Wild Ricochet doesn't change ownership of the spell.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-15 3:28 pm 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Reverberate costs 2 mana compared to Ricochet's 4.

While I like Ricochet better, its more a cheeky response to Time Warp and friends. The cheaper copy effects are almost always better against the field.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-16 1:18 am 

Joined: 2017-May-09 1:04 pm
Age: Wyvern
Epsilon wrote:
page04z wrote:
intreped wrote:
This is not any better than Reverberate in this situation, unless we are talking about non-overloaded Rift?


Why is this "not any better"? It will copy the overload. An overloaded spell on the stack has its text changed, so copying it will copy that changed text.

Copying an overloaded cyclonic rift will give you a copy of an overloaded cyclonic rift, returning all their permanents also.


Because you paid 4 mana for exactly the same effect as reverberate? You can't change targets when there aren't any and Wild Ricochet doesn't change ownership of the spell.


I'm more or less asking why this wouldn't be helpful on an overloaded cyclonic rift, you said it's not any better unless we are talking about a non overloaded cyclonic rift.

Anyway, when i said my dream response was wild ricochet, i was talking about copying an overloaded cyclonic rift. Not casting that exact spell.

The way you're talking is like you think it wouldn't work. "It's not any better than reverberate." Well, reverberate is pretty fucking good against an overloaded cyclonic rift.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-16 3:28 am 
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Joined: 2017-Mar-11 6:43 am
Age: Dragon
Once again, the board jumps to silliness for no real reason over offhand mentioning something. Jeyal probably mentioned Wild Ricochet because it is often more playable in EDH as a card. It goes in more things. The minutiae of which version of the Fork effect is best, is absolutely irrelevant.

Generally, if the board develops in a way that you have to use a card answer to an overloaded Cyclonic Rift, you were already losing- and likely misplayed in such a way earlier that it doesn't really matter. It's just a soft reset, those happen frequently in EDH.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-16 4:22 am 
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Joined: 2014-Aug-16 4:42 am
Age: Wyvern
Mr Degradation wrote:
It's just a soft reset, those happen frequently in EDH.


It's not a "reset". It's a one-sided board wipe. It makes all their attackers unblockable, all stax permanents gone, etc. On top of that, it's instant speed, so the caster gets to untap and "rebuild" right away, even though literally nothing of theirs was "reset".

In most situations it's game-ending, like most 7 mana spells. That's why I'm asking: What are your answers? Are there more? I certainly need them in my non-blue decks.


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