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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-18 1:09 am 

Joined: 2015-Apr-23 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Drrakus wrote:
This is part of why I say Spore Frog counters Cyclonic Rift. Rift goes on the stack, Frog gets used, and attacking means nothing that turn. In my play group, the Frog normally comes back immediately while Rift stays in the graveyard. One mana Frog VS seven mana Rift.

Spore Frog and friends are how my play group deals with Cyclonic Rift, Overwhelming Stampede, and many other cards. It's annoying to see it every game, but it answers a lot of different things, is easy to get back, and a pain to exile if someone knows how to protect it. I actually think I've Cloned a Spore Frog before.


Makes lots of sense, but if Rift is intended to make an attack, it's played EoT, and then fog effects are useless in response...


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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-18 6:07 am 

Joined: 2017-May-09 1:04 pm
Age: Wyvern
Nigerian Prince wrote:
Drrakus wrote:
This is part of why I say Spore Frog counters Cyclonic Rift. Rift goes on the stack, Frog gets used, and attacking means nothing that turn. In my play group, the Frog normally comes back immediately while Rift stays in the graveyard. One mana Frog VS seven mana Rift.

Spore Frog and friends are how my play group deals with Cyclonic Rift, Overwhelming Stampede, and many other cards. It's annoying to see it every game, but it answers a lot of different things, is easy to get back, and a pain to exile if someone knows how to protect it. I actually think I've Cloned a Spore Frog before.


Makes lots of sense, but if Rift is intended to make an attack, it's played EoT, and then fog effects are useless in response...


I personally like Constant Mists (although spore frog is still great). There's always a chance it is countered, but I run it in my Thrasios, Triton Hero Merfolk tribal deck since it's not as abusable in, say, my Gitrog deck. But it's a great way to give myself a few turns when I'm slowrolling the merfolk.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-18 9:04 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Drrakus wrote:
Mr Degradation wrote:
It IS a reset. Whether or not the cardtext prescribes it as effecting every player or not, EVERYONE plays their wipes in a manner that effects them least- whether that's playing Indestructible things with Wrath of God and Rout, playing Mulldrifter with Evacuation, or playing Blood Artist spam with Toxic Deluge. This is a basic concept in just playing Magic- you play around resets by making them unable to put you into an immediately losing position. Trying to answer the answer, forces you into a losing situation- where answering the things that beat you makes. rift. worse. The worse you make rift, the more suboptimal it becomes to play it, because it's a mana intensive way to handle the board, and if you can't force a win through it, you are likely to fall behind very quickly by holding up 7 mana for an answer and not using your own turn.

You don't need to tech rift, you need to make it a suboptimal play by interacting with your opponent's board development- so that the Rift has to be played to protect Rift player. That's a huge part of EDH as a format in both play and deck design. If you are getting blown out by Rift, you probably just aren't playing enough removal, or are playing too many cumbersome mana costs that don't help you interact with your opponent's position (like your own wipes and removal.)


This is part of why I say Spore Frog counters Cyclonic Rift. Rift goes on the stack, Frog gets used, and attacking means nothing that turn. In my play group, the Frog normally comes back immediately while Rift stays in the graveyard. One mana Frog VS seven mana Rift.

Spore Frog and friends are how my play group deals with Cyclonic Rift, Overwhelming Stampede, and many other cards. It's annoying to see it every game, but it answers a lot of different things, is easy to get back, and a pain to exile if someone knows how to protect it. I actually think I've Cloned a Spore Frog before.

Why would you play Rift on your turn when there's a spore frog in play? Don't you just wait until the end of turn of the guy to your right?

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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-22 4:25 am 
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Joined: 2017-Mar-11 6:43 am
Age: Dragon
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TFW when someone complains about Rift while they play Stax. Like Rift is the problem, and not a deck built as a torture device that plays all permanents and counterspells. See also, salt over Austere Command and friends.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-24 3:31 am 
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Joined: 2014-Aug-16 4:42 am
Age: Wyvern
Mr Degradation wrote:
Like Rift is the problem, and not a deck built as a torture device that plays all permanents and counterspells.


Just so we're clear, most cards are permanents.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-24 3:50 am 
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Joined: 2017-Mar-11 6:43 am
Age: Dragon
iplaymtg wrote:
Mr Degradation wrote:
Like Rift is the problem, and not a deck built as a torture device that plays all permanents and counterspells.


Just so we're clear, most cards are permanents.




Categorically (discounting lands even), perhaps- however, there certainly isn't a lack of non-permanents. But it's also worth note that the most powerful permanents in the game often act like instants and sorceries by proxy. Even so, it's entirely up to each player to determine how much of their deck is made up of slow or fast plays (slow meaning "does not immediately effect the state of play".) But if creating a semantic argument against my sentiment is the goal- conglaturations, a winner is you- one whole intenetz is your prize :P

EDIT: Tried including gatherer links showing the total instants and sorceries available. Apparently, either the forum can't handle them, or I have clue how to make them work.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you y'all deal with Cyclonic Rift?
AgePosted: 2017-May-24 7:32 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
http://magiccards.info/query?q=not%3Apermanent&v=card&s=cname

http://magiccards.info/query?q=is%3Apermanent&v=card&s=cname

It only gives 3000 of each.

From gatherer:


http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&type=+![instant]+![sorcery]

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&type=%7C[instant]%7C[sorcery]


its about a 1:3 ratio of "Spells" to permanents

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