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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment - Allowing One Card from the Ban List
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-04 2:37 pm 
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Joined: 2014-Sep-30 6:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Tolarian Academy, obviously. I mean, its arguably not even better than Cradle in EDH, as in order to abuse it you have to be running a lot of shitty cheap artifacts due to the one of rule.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment - Allowing One Card from the Ban List
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-05 7:27 pm 

Joined: 2011-Apr-07 11:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Reccuring nightmare for my reanimating dragon deck.

Tolarian acadamy was in one of my early voltron equipment decks (didnt realize it was banned, left it in saying it was a proxy for an island for a long time). I'd probably find somewhere to put it.

Trade Secrets I play now in commander (as it's in a precon and I have them boxes together as built... didnt even realize it was banned. And yes it's a terrible degenerate card that doesn't play as casually as it's read. It should read "target 'opponent' draws as many cards as they want, you may draw up to twice that many".)

Panoptic Mirror could find a place easily.

Maybe channel in my big red/green deck, would have to test to see if it's good enough.

Ruhan would either want balance or timewalk, not sure. (both would be strong, but not too over powered here. Panoptic Mirror would be too broken)

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment - Allowing One Card from the Ban List
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-06 5:13 pm 

Joined: 2016-Mar-16 12:03 pm
Age: Drake
Segrus wrote:
Recurring Nightmare is super fun, I love getting to play it, but it would take over and overshadow any and every deck I put it in. Some friends of mine keep and actively play a high powered Cube, and if a Reanimator deck wins it is solely off that card.


While the "un-ban one card" idea is fun, and Recurring Nightmare would be my first choice for all decks with black, I agree with Segrus, in that it takes a game over especially when you build around it. I've had reanimator decks among my normal decks with RN for over 15 years and I can attest that it is banned for a good reason in this format. Lol...My friends have even offered to let me do that, but I believe the ban list exists for a good reason and would therefore not join in. I always build to a format list in every deck I make, and honor all of the restrictions and bannings for that format...I realize this is just me, but there it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment - Allowing One Card from the Ban List
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-11 4:32 pm 
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Joined: 2016-May-16 12:03 pm
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Location: The Blind Eternities
Personally I feel that Recurring nightmare is best left banned for its extremely abusable nature.

Now Fastbond would be reasonably acceptable to have unbanned considering there is faster ways to ramp out mana and its ability is probability on par with Burgeoning.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment - Allowing One Card from the Ban List
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-11 6:05 pm 
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Joined: 2007-Mar-28 12:38 pm
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Now, there's no way I'd ever want to sit at a table with someone else playing Balance, but I've got plenty of decks that wouldn't mind a 2-mana Wrath of God/Keldon Firebombers/Mind Twist all-in-one. For oldschool reasons. (That, and I like saying "c'mon, play fair," every time I blow up a whole bunch of one player's shenanigans).

But the possibility of it on the opposite sides or alongside Zuran Orb,et al., certainly means it deserves its spot.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment - Allowing One Card from the Ban List
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-12 2:17 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Arcane Archer wrote:
While the "un-ban one card" idea is fun, ...I realize this is just me, but there it is.


RaiRai wrote:
Personally I feel that Recurring nightmare is best left banned for its extremely abusable nature.


Jeyal wrote:
Now, there's no way I'd ever want to sit at a table with someone else playing Balance, ...
But the possibility of it on the opposite sides or alongside Zuran Orb,et al., certainly means it deserves its spot.


Except this thread is not about unbanning anything. It is a hypothetical of "is there one banned card you could slot in one deck and use fairly? What would it be?"

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment - Allowing One Card from the Ban List
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-12 6:09 am 
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Joined: 2007-Mar-28 12:38 pm
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I find it sort of humorous that you cut out the part of my answer that actually answered the question and instead just cited the prologue and the epilogue where I say "this is a really bad idea, but..."

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment - Allowing One Card from the Ban List
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-12 11:10 am 

Joined: 2016-Mar-16 12:03 pm
Age: Drake
And I too did answer the question by saying that I would not play banned cards even if allowed. Recurring Nightmare is just the example I used, which I stand by, Tremayne. Aside from being highly abusable, it is also almost an isolated bubble. The only stop to it under timing rules and priority is practically a counterspell or nothing. Not really the social interaction the format looks for, and each banned card has similarly strong arguments as to why they are wrong for the format.

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Under Re-Construction:
Hazezon Tamar - Defenders of Dune (only 8 less Fremen/equipment, adding ramp and answers)
Prime Speaker Zegana - Zegana's R&D
Jenara, Asura of War - Jenara's Celestial Army (needs more answers, ramp, less angels...turns out Jenara can tank quite effectively as a voltron.)

Nuked decks:
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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment - Allowing One Card from the Ban List
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-12 3:48 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I apologize if I offended. The post was meant to get the thread back on track, not to attack anybody's position.

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Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment - Allowing One Card from the Ban List
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-14 11:55 pm 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Wait, we were supposed to use the unbanned card fairly?


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment - Allowing One Card from the Ban List
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-20 4:10 pm 

Joined: 2011-Apr-28 9:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Damidhol, Tuhel
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
scatteredsun wrote:
Chaos Orb.


Yes.


I logged in just to third this motion.

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment - Allowing One Card from the Ban List
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-22 4:42 am 

Joined: 2016-Mar-16 12:03 pm
Age: Drake
cryogen wrote:
Wait, we were supposed to use the unbanned card fairly?

That's kind of the problem isn't it? Lol, that's why I wouldn't play with one of these cards in the format unless/until the RC takes away the ban hammer. There's nothing more frustrating than to have a really awesome card and feel you have to hobble it to, say, 25% of its potential out of fairness. Better to leave it out imho.

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Current decks:
Xenagos, God of Revels - Hydras

Under Re-Construction:
Hazezon Tamar - Defenders of Dune (only 8 less Fremen/equipment, adding ramp and answers)
Prime Speaker Zegana - Zegana's R&D
Jenara, Asura of War - Jenara's Celestial Army (needs more answers, ramp, less angels...turns out Jenara can tank quite effectively as a voltron.)

Nuked decks:
Sliver Queen - Tokens (converted back to the 60 card deck it originated from, ending its edh dependency on tutors)


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment - Allowing One Card from the Ban List
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-26 1:03 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
IGottaBigDeck wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
scatteredsun wrote:
Chaos Orb.


Yes.


I logged in just to third this motion.

My group has an informal "everybody gets one" rule for cards that aren't legal, but aren't specifically banned from EDH, so I have done this (with the caveat that I wouldn't use it to try to 'geddon people). Off the top of my head, other people have used Booster Tutor and Super Secret Tech.

I tracked results. It ended up being a 1.47-for-1 on average, hitting an intended target over half of the time (16/30), even higher than that once I was better at using it (10/15 for the second half of my attempts).

If I could use one card that has been specifically banned in commander, I would probably go with Tinker (though I'd be tempted to buy a Library of Alexandria or Ancestral Recall). It is powerful but doesn't ruin games if you aren't building around it. It is also hard for other people to use to game ruining effect, unlike the creatures on the list.

If I could change my selection as time went on, I'd probably first use Painter's Servant and rebuild my Teysa, Orzhov Scion, deck. Protean Hulk, Panoptic Mirror, and Gifts Ungiven might make their way through the rotation. Pretty much everything else is so problematic that I wouldn't want to use it. Well, maybe Griselbrand as a noncommander.


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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment - Allowing One Card from the Ban List
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-26 1:47 am 
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Joined: 2012-Jan-06 10:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
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I had Ashnod's Coupon in my Glissa deck. It was funny the first couple times, but my group made me take it out after I had a dozen or so drinks and people got tired of getting up :)

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 Post subject: Re: Thought Experiment - Allowing One Card from the Ban List
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-30 7:51 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
scatteredsun wrote:
I had Ashnod's Coupon in my Glissa deck. It was funny the first couple times, but my group made me take it out after I had a dozen or so drinks and people got tired of getting up :)

Djinn Illuminatus?

I think I would want to play recurring nightmare. Partially because one of my groups has so little respect for the graveyard it would be the perfect card to teach them why grave hate is important.

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