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 Post subject: Re: SOI leaked cards?
AgePosted: 2016-Feb-12 8:04 pm 

Joined: 2012-Oct-09 1:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
Segrus wrote:
maiden77 wrote:
I meant corner case for a request of a Spider Legend for a spider deck. You and your better half are the only people i know of who want one :-P. I am not against a spider legend of course. I am happy to see more and more diverse cards and tribes get support. It means my cube gets more random as do the decks i face on the table. Spiders are in almost every set, so its not a bad call to print one, but i feel a Conspiracy/Commander/Planechase set would be the better place to see a spider legend in this instance. I feel like zombies, sphinx, demon, werewolf, angel, human and vampire are as many tribes as we will or can see in return to Innistrad. Amongst the smaller ones like dragon (bound to be one, can't possibly be as gorgeous or awesome as moonveil dragon IMO), spirit, devil, possibly ooze

There were no Sphinxes in the original Innistrad, so there's no reason to suspect there'd be one in a return.

A good comparison would be Moldgraf Monstrosity and Vorapede. Instead of something like those in the return, do a legendary Spider. We have enough legendary/mythic rare/rare Insects, and we don't need any extras.


Dunno why i said sphinx lol. As for legendary insect? Theres only 1 i can find from a million years ago Xira Arien. Like i say though, i would like there to be more tribes supported by legends. Maybe a Changeling would be cool? Or a legend that you have to pick a creature type as it lands like Adaptive Automaton that could fill alot of holes until more are printed

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 Post subject: Re: SOI leaked cards?
AgePosted: 2016-Feb-12 10:58 pm 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Maiden, there's three legendary insects already. We got the third one just in the last set of Commander deck: Xira Arien, Thriss, Nantuko Primus, and Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest.

Let that sink in. There are three legendary Insects, and no legendary Spiders. There are three Insects with mythic rare status, and Spiders are still at zero. I'm no social justice warrior. It just amazes me how there can be such rich literary support for legendary Spiders in World Literature, and yet nothing in Magic.

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 Post subject: Re: SOI leaked cards?
AgePosted: 2016-Feb-12 11:31 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jan-25 8:26 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary
Treamayne wrote:
There are plenty of things already that care about those names being different.

Let's use Ravager of the Fells as our notional example. For this example, both sides have the same name. Are you happy with Eradicate on the night side pulling all of your day sides out of the deck and GY? Or Exclusion Ritual effectively Imprinting both sides? Voidstone Gargoyle effectively blocking abilities from both sides?

Is it common? No. Does it matter? Yes.

These are examples of things that care about the names alone and/or offer enough public information to distinguish between cards. These are not examples that care about two identical names having different characteristics in non-public zones.

Yes, Pithing Needle shuts off both sides of the card. That's fine.

And what I mean by "that's fine" isn't that it's a good or bad idea necessarily, but that it works within the framework of the rules today. There are no technical issues from a rule perspective, and no major conflicts with existing mechanics (at least that I've thought of so far).

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 Post subject: Re: SOI leaked cards?
AgePosted: 2016-Feb-12 11:55 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
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I would argue that the examples do care about other characteristics. They are cast to affect one card and its characteristics, but actually affect two cards with different characteristics that share a name. This effectively makes removal balanced to affect one thing twice as effective. By targeting Card B with Characteristic(s) Y on the battlefield, you also hit Card A with Characteristic(s) X that maybe in Public or Hidden zones and may not match the targeted card, except in name.

tarnar wrote:
These are examples of things that care about the names alone and/or offer enough public information to distinguish between cards. These are not examples that care about two identical names having different characteristics in non-public zones.


That's an impossible situation if you are discussing DFCs. The Night side won't exist anywhere but on the Battlefield and determining CI.

Are you looking for a Muscle Burst/Diligent Farmhand thing?

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 Post subject: Re: SOI leaked cards?
AgePosted: 2016-Feb-13 2:38 am 

Joined: 2012-Oct-09 1:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
Segrus wrote:
Maiden, there's three legendary insects already. We got the third one just in the last set of Commander deck: Xira Arien, Thriss, Nantuko Primus, and Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest.

Let that sink in. There are three legendary Insects, and no legendary Spiders. There are three Insects with mythic rare status, and Spiders are still at zero. I'm no social justice warrior. It just amazes me how there can be such rich literary support for legendary Spiders in World Literature, and yet nothing in Magic.


woah i didn't know there were 3. It does seem very lobsided. It's a shame dragonlair spider wasn't legendary but making spiders not insects. Would have been pretty spot on. Fingers crossed they print more spiders and a legend soon, they do have some pretty nice abilities, although to insects listed don't really support insects per sey, merely the colours they occupy, which is a shame

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 Post subject: Re: SOI leaked cards?
AgePosted: 2016-Feb-13 3:09 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
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So obviously thaumaturge's campaign against them is working. How do you do it? Is it money? Do you have dirt on the designers? I NEED TO KNOW.

:P

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 Post subject: Re: SOI leaked cards?
AgePosted: 2016-Feb-13 6:51 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Treamayne wrote:
I would argue that the examples do care about other characteristics. They are cast to affect one card and its characteristics, but actually affect two cards with different characteristics that share a name. This effectively makes removal balanced to affect one thing twice as effective. By targeting Card B with Characteristic(s) Y on the battlefield, you also hit Card A with Characteristic(s) X that maybe in Public or Hidden zones and may not match the targeted card, except in name.

Given that the only situation this is being suggested for is a DFC legend, I don't see that as an issue. Could you Eradicate them or Voidstone them or whatever? Yes. Is that really an issue for the game? I'd say no.

As for the judge thing... this really doesn't feel like an insurmountable obstacle. It could possibly require a minor policy change, but I don't see why they couldn't do it.

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 Post subject: Re: SOI leaked cards?
AgePosted: 2016-Feb-13 4:53 pm 
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Joined: 2013-May-29 9:57 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Atlanta, GA
Segrus wrote:
Maiden, there's three legendary insects already. We got the third one just in the last set of Commander deck: Xira Arien, Thriss, Nantuko Primus, and Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest.

To be fair, two of those insects are hot trash, and none of them care about the tribe specifically. Also factor in only one of those is in all the insect colors, and it's one of those two.

I've been thinking about insect tribal for a long time, but prior to Mazirek getting printed, what I used to always say was that there are only two legendary insects and they are both terrible. Not to say spiders don't deserve one, but they certainly aren't showing insects too many special favors.

And there are still seven scorpions that need a home.

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 Post subject: Re: SOI leaked cards?
AgePosted: 2016-Feb-13 8:03 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Zirilan of the Claw wrote:
And there are still seven scorpions that need a home.


But somehow Giant Solifuge, which should also be an arachnid, is labeled an Insect.

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Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
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 Post subject: Re: SOI leaked cards?
AgePosted: 2016-Feb-13 10:19 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Zirilan of the Claw wrote:
To be fair, two of those insects are hot trash, and none of them care about the tribe specifically. Also factor in only one of those is in all the insect colors, and it's one of those two.

I've been thinking about insect tribal for a long time, but prior to Mazirek getting printed, what I used to always say was that there are only two legendary insects and they are both terrible. Not to say spiders don't deserve one, but they certainly aren't showing insects too many special favors.

And there are still seven scorpions that need a home.

While you've stated you aren't necessarily against having Spiders get a legendary creatures, I'd like to point out the argument doesn't really hold water. We could probably find tons of examples of 'bad' legendary creatures which either don't contribute to their tribe or are just nearly unplayable. It'd be like saying, "Hey, well, we screwed up two of the three chances we got, so let's try a few more times to even out those percentages." If Wizards made design decisions solely on trying to fix past mistakes...golly, can you imagine what a set like that would look like?

Going by that logic, Wizards has screwed up three out of the four Spider rare cards they've printed: Silklash Spider being the only possibly good design (Dragonlair Spider loses out for not being legendary and not making spider tokens, both of which were terrible design decisions).

Also, I'd like Wizards to print a legendary Eye, because Evil Eye of Urborg and Evil Eye of Orms-by-Gore need a home for me. /sarcasm

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 Post subject: Re: SOI leaked cards?
AgePosted: 2016-Feb-14 4:24 am 
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Joined: 2014-Jul-28 8:30 am
Age: Dragon
I'm holding out for either a legendary Beeble, Homunculus, Puca or Nogle.

Breeblebrox, Survivor of Tolaria 2U
Legendary Creature - Beeble
Breeblebrox, Survivor of Tolaria is unblockable as long as an opponent controls a nonland permanent.
1U: Breeblebrox gains hexproof until end of turn.
1: Breeblebrox gets +1/-1 until end of turn
1: Breeblebrox gets -1/+1 until end of turn
2/3

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Last edited by kirkusjones on 2016-Feb-15 12:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: SOI leaked cards?
AgePosted: 2016-Feb-14 5:23 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
crokaycete wrote:
Knowing what the player means to ask when asked a question doesn't give you the freedom to answer what they meant if they actually asked you something different.

If there is ambiguity, you are 100% within your judge powers to ask for clarification. In the example of a DFC with the same name on both sides, as a judge you genuinely don't know. There might be a night side Werewolf Jim on the battlefield (and let's say it is in a language the player doesn't read); they might actually want to know about the day side to know whether they should cast two spells to flip it or they might just want to know what the night side of the card actually does. The judge walking up has no idea what the full thought process is for the player.

Treamayne wrote:
Let's use Ravager of the Fells as our notional example. For this example, both sides have the same name. Are you happy with Eradicate on the night side pulling all of your day sides out of the deck and GY? Or Exclusion Ritual effectively Imprinting both sides? Voidstone Gargoyle effectively blocking abilities from both sides?

I am happy with all of those situations. The fact that it doesn't work that way currently is kind of bullshit, especially when you consider that Eradicating a Lhurgoyf token from a Riptide Replicator can pull all of your Lhurgoyf cards out of your deck.


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 Post subject: Re: SOI leaked cards?
AgePosted: 2016-Feb-15 9:50 am 

Joined: 2010-Feb-17 1:06 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Europe - Somewhere
New Innistrad cards from the upcoming Duel Deck.

ImageImageImage
Image

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 Post subject: Re: SOI leaked cards?
AgePosted: 2016-Feb-15 11:22 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
So I guess they decided to turn Goyf into a keyword ability. Not exactly, but when does Goyf ever need to get bigger than a 4/5 anyway?

EDIT:
Actually, that'd be something they could do to make a "fixed" Goyf:

Turdmagoyf: 1G

Creature: Lhurgoyf (Mythic)

Delirium: If you have four or more card types in your graveyard, Turdmagouf gets +X/+X, where X is the number of different card types in your graveyard.

0/1

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 Post subject: Re: SOI leaked cards?
AgePosted: 2016-Feb-15 4:43 pm 

Joined: 2013-Oct-09 7:02 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Strictly better Ghostway is nice


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