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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2015 Reactions
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-20 12:20 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
Segrus wrote:
Epsilon wrote:
A lot of people are overlooking her as just another aggro general for boros but she's the cheapest, and the most aggressive. No other legendary comes with double strike without hoops. If you drop Shu Yun late game, unless you have other things to do he's a 3/2. If you drop her late game she'll be a 7/7 double strike, vigilance. It's relevant but does not need to be a huge focus like they tried to make it. Even with the games she was in being fairly mana flooded she was scary. I don't want to be on the receiving end of a tuned deck.

I've been on the receiving end of Anax and Cymede with Madcap Skills and double strike on turn four a few times, which does take two hoops to jump through, but you've got to respect 16 general damage on turn 4. It'd be interesting to see between the two which is strongest as a tuned deck.


The trample on the heroic trigger is huge for A&C. It's probably the only "fault" Kalemne has. So far she's been my biggest threat in the modified pool we're playing in. (Her & Gisela, but that's not news)

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Current decks:
Sydri's random pile of cards with "Artifact" on them
Scarab God Zombie Horde
Atraxa Superfriends
Yidris Eldrazi (4C Devoid)
Sissay Angel Oath
Wort's Goblin Conspiracy
Gonti's Mega-Bouncy Castle


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2015 Reactions
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-20 12:57 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
zimagic wrote:
Even when he/she/it wasn’t in combo mode

"Him" based on the flavor text.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2015 Reactions
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-21 4:09 pm 

Joined: 2009-Jul-02 4:25 pm
Age: Drake
So, a couple of the experience counter generals are WAAAAAY more powerful than initially thought.

Ezuri gets out of hand pretty easily with elves or tokens, Meren enables an amazingly abusive Stax deck, and Mizzix... well. Let me tell you about Mizzix.

Mizzix is wtfbroken. Not exaggerating. I am consistently winning games on turn 4 or 5 with very little effort. Like, no Sol Ring or any kind of busted mana rocks. I'm talking about, play 4 lands, cast Mizzix, untap and win. At first I just replaced Melek with Mizzix and made no other changes to my deck, and I immediately killed the table on turn 4 with a combo that normally requires 10 mana and 7 lands to pull off (Turnabout + Reiterate + Lightning Bolt). Like, no setup. I cast a Wayfarer's Bauble on turn 1. On turn 4 when I untapped, I did a 1-drop cantrip, bounced a permanent with Cyclonic Rift, cast a Frantic Search, and killed everyone. Once I started tweaking the deck to synergize more with Mizzix, it only got more consistent.

While the card by itself enables some really scary shenanigans, I'm not sure it needs to be banned, for a couple of reasons:
1) You really have to be playing a very specific archetype that has some serious deckbuilding constraints, and the most competitive build contains some cards that most casual players wouldn't even consider. You're probably not going to accidentally ruin any games. This general will pretty quickly become as big a red-flag as Azami in most playgroups, I think.
2) The decision trees can be enormous. Lines of play aren't always obvious. An inexperienced player will most likely do very poorly with the deck.

At any rate, it's definitely something to keep an eye on. It's a card that will only ever get better as new sets are printed, and it's only a matter of time until some big, shiny Timmy sorcery gets printed that ruins the format when cast for near-free.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2015 Reactions
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-21 6:31 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Mar-31 8:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
So basically another Jhoira really.

Popular for awhile but eventually hated out or everyone who runs Mizzix will have to sign a disclaimer at the start of every game stating they "don't do anything broken". No one will believe the player anyway and he'll likely get targeted asap. Gotcha.

Shame because Mizzix is pretty cool and the first U/R Commander I considered taking seriously.

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Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2015 Reactions
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-21 8:04 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-25 1:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
One of the things I like a lot about the experience counters is how the commanders get stronger as the game progresses. They start off weak, but then build up over the long game, increasing your odds of winning. I like long games as just as the next guy, but they need to end sometime. And it's better to lose the game to an overpowered commander than an infinite combo with the excuse of "well, the game has to end sometime".

As for Mizzix, yeah, I knew the moment I saw him he was gonna be broken, but still fair. And what makes him fair is that he has a very fragile body that doesn't have an immediate impact on the board when he enters the field. He also needs a lot of setup to actually win you the game. The reason he's probably consistently winning you games turn 5 or 6 is because people want to see him in action, and don't have an idea yet that reducing the cost of spells can lead to a really big storm count that ends up burying everyone. Just let him enjoy the spotlight for now.

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Name: Forged in Stone
General: Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Archetype: Aggro

Name: Night of the Ninja
General: Vela the Night-Clad
Archetype: Aggro-Control

Name: Boros Legion
General: Aurelia, the Warleader
Archetype: Aggro

Name: Dragon Fire
General: Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Archetype: Midrange


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2015 Reactions
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-21 8:43 pm 

Joined: 2013-Oct-09 7:02 am
Age: Elder Dragon
majikal wrote:
Mizzix is wtfbroken. Not exaggerating. I am consistently winning games on turn 4 or 5 with very little effort. Like, no Sol Ring or any kind of busted mana rocks. I'm talking about, play 4 lands, cast Mizzix, untap and win. At first I just replaced Melek with Mizzix and made no other changes to my deck, and I immediately killed the table on turn 4 with a combo that normally requires 10 mana and 7 lands to pull off (Turnabout + Reiterate + Lightning Bolt). Like, no setup. I cast a Wayfarer's Bauble on turn 1. On turn 4 when I untapped, I did a 1-drop cantrip, bounced a permanent with Cyclonic Rift, cast a Frantic Search, and killed everyone. Once I started tweaking the deck to synergize more with Mizzix, it only got more consistent.

What ways are there to win that early? Is there more beyond Turnabout + Reiterate?


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2015 Reactions
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-22 2:44 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
MrCool wrote:
majikal wrote:
...that normally requires 10 mana and 7 lands to pull off (Turnabout + Reiterate + Lightning Bolt)...

What ways are there to win that early? Is there more beyond Turnabout + Reiterate?


You don't need more. R, cast Lightning bolt (target any player); UU, cast Turnabout calling lands; RR, cast Reiterate with buyback. Take turns Forking the Bolt and the Turnabout until you have enough copies of Lightning Bolt to kill everyone. That's why Majikal said it normally requires 10 mana and seven lands. Though it does need three Experience Counters before staring (Turnabout will give you the fourth before casting reiterate

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HK

Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2015 Reactions
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-22 2:54 am 
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Joined: 2013-Oct-26 9:21 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Xenia, OH, USA
I was playing my Mizzix deck on Monday, and was on the ropes until I drew a Blatant Thievery... Stole one player's Eldrazi Monument and another player's Gideon, Champion of Justice (that had like 20 odd loyalty counters). I killed the player that had the Eldrazi Monument immediately (knowing I would lose the monument, and avoiding the sac) and left myself wide open to attack. The next player took his turn and I cast Icy Blast on the beginning of his combat step. Then on my turn I went all out with an attack, got him down about halfway (he was playing lifegain) then cast Fireball with Pyromancer's Goggles to finish him off.

Up until then, they were saying my deck couldn't win against theirs.

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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2015 Reactions
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-22 2:57 am 
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Joined: 2013-Oct-26 9:21 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Xenia, OH, USA
The second game I played, I was playing with Karlov, had Soul Sisters and other supporting cards, And Whispersilk Cloak on Karlov. Needless to say, I won that game easily.

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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2015 Reactions
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-22 4:58 am 

Joined: 2013-Oct-09 7:02 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Treamayne wrote:
MrCool wrote:
majikal wrote:
...that normally requires 10 mana and 7 lands to pull off (Turnabout + Reiterate + Lightning Bolt)...

What ways are there to win that early? Is there more beyond Turnabout + Reiterate?


You don't need more. R, cast Lightning bolt (target any player); UU, cast Turnabout calling lands; RR, cast Reiterate with buyback. Take turns Forking the Bolt and the Turnabout until you have enough copies of Lightning Bolt to kill everyone. That's why Majikal said it normally requires 10 mana and seven lands. Though it does need three Experience Counters before staring (Turnabout will give you the fourth before casting reiterate

I know how the combo works. I'm of the opinion that you will not consistently get two specific cards when drawing around 14 cards from your deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2015 Reactions
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-22 5:07 am 
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Joined: 2009-Mar-31 8:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
I like the experience mechanic so much, I kind of hope they complete the cycle and do allied colours as well.

Just a passing random thought.

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Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2015 Reactions
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-22 10:21 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-10 12:16 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
MrCool wrote:
I know how the combo works. I'm of the opinion that you will not consistently get two specific cards when drawing around 14 cards from your deck.


Sorry I misunderstood your question.

I would guess since he also mentions storm count that he does have other combos in there as well. But we can wait for him to come back and give more data.

_________________
V/R

HK

Hazezon Tamar - Manland theme
Seshiro the Anointed - Snake Tribal
Jedit Ojanen of Efrava - Cat and Warrior Dual Tribal
Doran, the Seige Tower - Wall Tribal
Progenitus - Hydra themed Proliferate Deck
Karona, the False God - Backstabbing Hug


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2015 Reactions
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-22 11:12 am 

Joined: 2009-Jul-02 4:25 pm
Age: Drake
Mystical Tutor, Firemind's Foresight, and Long Term Plans all search out Reiterate. There are enough cantrips and cheap dig spells that pulling it off the top 3 cards isn't a problem. Merchant Scroll finds your better tutors.

Intuition gets two combo pieces and Mystic Retrieval. Turnabout is accompanied by Reality Spasm, Reset, Frantic Search, Seething Song, and Mana Geyser as things that combo with reiterate given enough counters. And you will get plenty of counters. And you can finish with Comet Storm, Stroke of Genius, Epic Experiment, BSZ, or any instant cantrip to dig for your finisher.

I don't play any storm spells except for Mind's Desire, and I'm debating cutting it since I have so many X-costs. Somebody else mentioned storm count.

My other win conditions are Sphinx Bone Wand and just cast a bunch of stuff with buyback (Mystic Speculation is hilarious in this deck already) as well as Future Sight + Helm of Awakening + Sensei's Divining Top. But these are the emergency backup plans in case you somehow lose your other combo.

You can also incidentally win off of multiple uses of kicked Rite of Replication.

Redundancy in case of countermagic includes Mizzix's Mastery (which you really don't have to overload), Past in Flames, Mystic Retrieval, Recall, and Recoup.

I don't actually run any creatures at all, so most of the deck is tuned to find combo pieces. I'm still in the process of tuning it further, as many cards that could be considered staples for this color combination are just too slow or not splashy enough given the cost reduction it's capable of. I'll post a list once I'm happy with the configuration.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander 2015 Reactions
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-23 9:33 am 

Joined: 2009-Jul-02 4:25 pm
Age: Drake
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17987

Creatureless Mizzix decklist. I ended up cutting Future Sight as it was just a little too slow, and the combo with Helm and Top took too much setup. I added Enter the Infinite (not sure why I didn't think to include it before, but it's bonkers). Top came out as well because it doesn't really do much when you draw as many cards as this deck.


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