Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2019-Mar-20 2:24 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 78 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: For the good of the Format
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-22 1:47 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I originally came to shout at Sheldon for recommending that more people play back to basics. I decided to wait and finish reading the article. Then I came across the part that also suggests playing more Karn, Silver Golem, so I came straight back to shout at Sheldon for recommending more back to basics.

As the proud owner of Karn Silver Golem EDH deck, I was horrified to think that more people might start picking up back to basics. Worst of all, ruination was mentioned in the same sentence. These cards make both my Karn deck and my Reaper King deck completely unplayable.

I guess this is kind of a PSA. If you play these cards, or ones like them (looking at you Wave of Vitriol), please let the Karn player know before you start. I for one would be diving for a different deck immediately.

As for the rest of the article, great job as usual, keep up the good work Sheldon.

_________________
Favourite Deck:
Ghost Council of Orzhova

Playing Online:
Noyan Darr & Sedris Zombie Guy


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: For the good of the Format
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-22 2:01 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Sheldon recommends more players play Portcullis? That shuts down all of my creature decks! Down with Sheldon!

But seriously, just because Sheldon recommends something doesn't mean we're all going to see a dramatic increase in the number of them being played.

_________________
Current:
Decklists are posted here. They can all be found in the Decklist Forum.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: For the good of the Format
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-22 2:04 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2012-Sep-15 5:03 am
Age: Dragon
Honestly? I think it's on you to ask before the game starts. You can't get everybody to always ask you before the game starts, but can get yourself to always ask everybody before the game starts.

_________________
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Curse of the Swine is like the unholy love child of Terastodon and Dregs of Sorrow. AND it makes bacon!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: For the good of the Format
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-22 2:55 pm 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Segrus wrote:
Sheldon recommends more players play Portcullis? That shuts down all of my creature decks! Down with Sheldon!

But seriously, just because Sheldon recommends something doesn't mean we're all going to see a dramatic increase in the number of them being played.


Can you really equate "your lands dont untap" with "your creatures are less useful"?

It was a good article and I am simply trying to disagree with one section of it. The "shout at Sheldon" I thought was fairly obviously not serious, I'm not here for a witch hunt and Id rather you not imply that I am.

sir squab wrote:
Honestly? I think it's on you to ask before the game starts. You can't get everybody to always ask you before the game starts, but can get yourself to always ask everybody before the game starts.


I do, but it would be better if people were aware of and thought about both sides.

Back to basics is a stax card that prevents people playing magic, I don't agree that it belongs on a list of great cards for the format.

_________________
Favourite Deck:
Ghost Council of Orzhova

Playing Online:
Noyan Darr & Sedris Zombie Guy


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: For the good of the Format
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-22 3:52 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2012-Sep-15 5:03 am
Age: Dragon
No offense, but your Karn deck is a bit of a niche scenario. Realistically, any deck playing less then 5 colors will probably have about half basic lands.

You'll disagree here, but I think cards that hurt non-basic lands are fine. They're cards whose power is (usually) proportional to the power of the deck - the more non-basics a person has, the more they have really good, expensive duals and good, expensive utility lands. Good, expensive lands means the rest of the deck is probably filled with good, expensive lands.

There are exceptions to this, but I'd say that's a pretty good generalization.

_________________
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Curse of the Swine is like the unholy love child of Terastodon and Dregs of Sorrow. AND it makes bacon!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: For the good of the Format
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-22 6:01 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
specter404 wrote:
I originally came to shout at Sheldon for recommending that more people play back to basics. I decided to wait and finish reading the article. Then I came across the part that also suggests playing more Karn, Silver Golem, so I came straight back to shout at Sheldon for recommending more back to basics.

As the proud owner of Karn Silver Golem EDH deck, I was horrified to think that more people might start picking up back to basics. Worst of all, ruination was mentioned in the same sentence. These cards make both my Karn deck and my Reaper King deck completely unplayable.

I guess this is kind of a PSA. If you play these cards, or ones like them (looking at you Wave of Vitriol), please let the Karn player know before you start. I for one would be diving for a different deck immediately.

As for the rest of the article, great job as usual, keep up the good work Sheldon.


Patience little grasshopper! One day you'll wake up and the world will be papered with colourless basic lands. You may be extrememly old when this happens so don't hold your breath, but on that day you will go to your local LGS and purchase a Back to Basics, frame it and post a picture on these boards as if to say "F¤#k You, Back to basics, I wave my underarms in your general direction!" and all will be right in the world.

_________________
Current decks:
Sydri's random pile of cards with "Artifact" on them
Scarab God Zombie Horde
Atraxa Superfriends
Yidris Eldrazi (4C Devoid)
Sissay Angel Oath
Wort's Goblin Conspiracy
Gonti's Mega-Bouncy Castle


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: For the good of the Format
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-22 9:49 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
specter404 wrote:
Segrus wrote:
Sheldon recommends more players play Portcullis? That shuts down all of my creature decks! Down with Sheldon!

But seriously, just because Sheldon recommends something doesn't mean we're all going to see a dramatic increase in the number of them being played.


Can you really equate "your lands dont untap" with "your creatures are less useful"?

It was a good article and I am simply trying to disagree with one section of it. The "shout at Sheldon" I thought was fairly obviously not serious, I'm not here for a witch hunt and Id rather you not imply that I am.

No, they obviously can't be equated, but it does reflect how silly I think your original post sounded. You're welcome to disagree, but Karn's and 5-Color's lands aren't untouchable just because they are your pet decks. Back to the Basics is a nice way of stalling those two decks without having to resort to land destruction.

_________________
Current:
Decklists are posted here. They can all be found in the Decklist Forum.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: For the good of the Format
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-22 10:43 pm 
EDH Rules Committee
User avatar

Joined: 2006-May-24 10:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Yeah, I suppose I could have suggested Blood Moon. At least they untap.

_________________
"Leave the gun. Take the cannolis."


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: For the good of the Format
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-23 1:57 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Sheldon wrote:
Yeah, I suppose I could have suggested Blood Moon. At least they untap.

And Magus of the Moon which is even easier to remove by any color.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: For the good of the Format
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-23 2:48 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
cryogen wrote:
Sheldon wrote:
Yeah, I suppose I could have suggested Blood Moon. At least they untap.

And Magus of the Moon which is even easier to remove by any color.

Yep. One of my friends has a 5-color Cromat deck that is nothing but gold cards and nonbasics. He will scoop to Blood Moon if it isn't answered immediately, but will stick around because eventually somebody will kill the Magus.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: For the good of the Format
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-23 4:40 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
I disagree strongly with the notion that a lot of non-basics means you're being "super greedy", as well as the idea that one should be punished for running a lot of non-basics. There are definitely some non-basics that should die in a fire at the earliest opportunity - things like Cabal Coffers and Gaea's Cradle that produce obscene amounts of mana, or lands with powerful non-mana abilities stapled to them, like Kessig Wolf Run. But the idea that things like shocks, duals, buddy lands, painlands, filter lands, rav karoos, command tower, etc are "greedy" is ridiculous. If the philosophy truly is "create games you want to remember, not those you want to forget" then down with Back to Basics, Blood Moon, Contamination, and anything else that says "you can't play but I can". Run spot answers for the truly dangerous lands and put your game-ruining filth in the trash where it belongs.

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: For the good of the Format
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-23 5:21 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Sid the Chicken wrote:
I disagree strongly with the notion that a lot of non-basics means you're being "super greedy", as well as the idea that one should be punished for running a lot of non-basics. There are definitely some non-basics that should die in a fire at the earliest opportunity - things like Cabal Coffers and Gaea's Cradle that produce obscene amounts of mana, or lands with powerful non-mana abilities stapled to them, like Kessig Wolf Run. But the idea that things like shocks, duals, buddy lands, painlands, filter lands, rav karoos, command tower, etc are "greedy" is ridiculous. If the philosophy truly is "create games you want to remember, not those you want to forget" then down with Back to Basics, Blood Moon, Contamination, and anything else that says "you can't play but I can". Run spot answers for the truly dangerous lands and put your game-ruining filth in the trash where it belongs.

Scenario: I run an Esper artifact deck which skimps on lands in favor of lots of cheap mana rocks. You cast Austere Command and blow up all my mana production. Who is at fault here, you for ruining my game or me for not building with this possibility in mind?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: For the good of the Format
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-23 5:56 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
cryogen wrote:
Scenario: I run an Esper artifact deck which skimps on lands in favor of lots of cheap mana rocks. You cast Austere Command and blow up all my mana production. Who is at fault here, you for ruining my game or me for not building with this possibility in mind?

Austere Command is not put in decks for the express purpose of preventing everyone else from playing. Things like Back to Basics and Blood Moon absolutely are.

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: For the good of the Format
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-23 6:25 am 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Sid the Chicken wrote:
cryogen wrote:
Scenario: I run an Esper artifact deck which skimps on lands in favor of lots of cheap mana rocks. You cast Austere Command and blow up all my mana production. Who is at fault here, you for ruining my game or me for not building with this possibility in mind?

Austere Command is not put in decks for the express purpose of preventing everyone else from playing. Things like Back to Basics and Blood Moon absolutely are.

The whole point of the game is to prevent people from playing. I'm trying to stop you from playing by eliminating the resources you have in order to eventually eliminate you from the game. Whether I use counter spells, board wipes, mana denial, discard, or overruns, this is all semantics of a singular goal.

The only difference between any of them is the "feel bad" aspect, and this is a social issue not a game one.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: For the good of the Format
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-23 7:01 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Austere Command is not put in decks for the express purpose of preventing everyone else from playing. Things like Back to Basics and Blood Moon absolutely are.
Not usually, they are put in to slow down players who run tons of non-basics. They have to balance flexibility with having some basics to battle Moon, BtB etc.

Now Karn is a different beast, he has no choice. I agree its fair to warn them in advance or not cast it while they live. Social format and all.

_________________
sir squab wrote:
My... history of buying Magic cards is probably a tapestry of bad financial decisions >_>
niheloim wrote:
No, I think he's right. I'm just all butt-hurt over prophet.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 78 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 32 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron