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 Post subject: Re: Exile Crazy?
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-17 2:56 am 
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Joined: 2012-Jun-14 2:24 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Trapped in my own twisted imagination.
Necrachilles wrote:
sir squab wrote:
Exile fits what the eldrazi are doing better. They aren't destroying the life on the plain, leaving it as a barren graveyard - they are ultimately destroying the plane itself.

I'm still curious how this fits mechanically. Like, a lot of them bring stuff out of exile and put it back into the gy. So, Eldrazi annihilate the stuff then un-annihilate it a little bit?

they slurp it up into nothingness and then excrete it as a lifeless mass for their own purposes I guess? Could be their equivalent of spending mana.

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 Post subject: Re: Exile Crazy?
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-17 3:53 am 
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Joined: 2013-May-29 9:57 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Atlanta, GA
Necrachilles wrote:
sir squab wrote:
Exile fits what the eldrazi are doing better. They aren't destroying the life on the plain, leaving it as a barren graveyard - they are ultimately destroying the plane itself.

I'm still curious how this fits mechanically. Like, a lot of them bring stuff out of exile and put it back into the gy. So, Eldrazi annihilate the stuff then un-annihilate it a little bit?

From what I gather, there just isn't any other zone to put those cards in, unless they want to bring back the absolutely-removed-from-the-freaking-game-forever zone from AWOL.

I mean, I guess they could put the processed cards into the Command Zone, but that just seems stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: Exile Crazy?
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-17 5:32 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
It's a simple case of game-play trumps flavor here. The fact that you may want to use processor abilities, but may not want to give them back any exiled cards makes it an interesting tension sometimes. Also, as mentioned, there's nowhere else to really put them.


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 Post subject: Re: Exile Crazy?
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-17 5:42 am 
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Joined: 2013-Oct-26 9:21 am
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Location: Xenia, OH, USA
Zirilan of the Claw wrote:
From what I gather, there just isn't any other zone to put those cards in, unless they want to bring back the absolutely-removed-from-the-freaking-game-forever zone from AWOL.

I mean, I guess they could put the processed cards into the Command Zone, but that just seems stupid.


Actually, they really do need to bring back the "absolutely-removed-from-the-freaking-game-forever" zone, if only to be consistent with the rules. All cards that reference expansion symbols, artists, flavor text, etc., have rules for them (including unglued/unhinged/holiday cards), so if only for consistencies sake, there should be a "absolutely-removed-from-the-freaking-game-forever" zone, even though only one card can use it.

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 Post subject: Re: Exile Crazy?
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-17 6:24 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
The Un- cards have their own rules that aren't included in the main game rules -- so why should this particular one be brought into the main rules?


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 Post subject: Re: Exile Crazy?
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-17 1:00 pm 
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Carthain wrote:
The Un- cards have their own rules that aren't included in the main game rules -- so why should this particular one be brought into the main rules?


Actually, they had to update the rules for a lot of the attributes of a card specifically for the Un sets. There are rules to identify every part of the card, like artist, set, typeline, etc...

But as the rules stand currently, the AWOL will attempt to send the card to the 'super exile' and can't because the zone doesn't exist.

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 Post subject: Re: Exile Crazy?
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-18 3:36 am 
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tgambitg wrote:
But as the rules stand currently, the AWOL will attempt to send the card to the 'super exile' and can't because the zone doesn't exist.

When you're playing with Un- cards, that zone does indeed exist. Anything an Un- card needs to exist does so, even if it doesn't work with the rules.

Take a look at rule #107.1 & 107.1a
CompRules wrote:
107.1. The only numbers the Magic game uses are integers.
107.1a. You can't choose a fractional number, deal fractional damage, gain fractional life, and so on. If a spell or ability could generate a fractional number, the spell or ability will tell you whether to round up or down.
Fractions were a huuuge part of Unhinged, but the rules don't support it. But, when playing with Un- cards, you make it work. You adjust the rules however is needed to make it work (also see Goblin Bookie that has an ability that can't work in the rules.)

So saying that the "super-exile" zone doesn't exist is bogus. If you're using AWOL, it exists.


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 Post subject: Re: Exile Crazy?
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-18 5:06 am 
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Location: Xenia, OH, USA
Carthain wrote:
tgambitg wrote:
But as the rules stand currently, the AWOL will attempt to send the card to the 'super exile' and can't because the zone doesn't exist.

When you're playing with Un- cards, that zone does indeed exist. Anything an Un- card needs to exist does so, even if it doesn't work with the rules.

Take a look at rule #107.1 & 107.1a
CompRules wrote:
107.1. The only numbers the Magic game uses are integers.
107.1a. You can't choose a fractional number, deal fractional damage, gain fractional life, and so on. If a spell or ability could generate a fractional number, the spell or ability will tell you whether to round up or down.
Fractions were a huuuge part of Unhinged, but the rules don't support it. But, when playing with Un- cards, you make it work. You adjust the rules however is needed to make it work (also see Goblin Bookie that has an ability that can't work in the rules.)

So saying that the "super-exile" zone doesn't exist is bogus. If you're using AWOL, it exists.


Actually, the fractional things are covered here:
Quote:
101.1. Whenever a card's text directly contradicts these rules, the card takes precedence. The card overrides only the rule that applies to that specific situation. The only exception is that a player can concede the game at any time (see rule 104.3a).


They contradict the rules, so they take precedence.

As far as Goblin Bookie is concerned, the rules DO cover him, coin flipping has it's own section:
Quote:
705. Flipping a Coin

705.1. To flip a coin for an object that cares whether a player wins or loses the flip, the affected player flips the coin and calls “heads” or “tails.” If the call matches the result, that player wins the flip. Otherwise, the player loses the flip. Only the player who flips the coin wins or loses the flip; no other players are involved.
705.2. To flip a coin for an object that cares whether the coin comes up heads or tails, each affected player flips a coin without making a call. No player wins or loses this kind of flip.
705.3. A coin used in a flip must be a two-sided object with easily distinguished sides and equal likelihood that either side lands face up. If the coin that’s being flipped doesn’t have an obvious “heads” or “tails,” designate one side to be “heads,” and the other side to be “tails.” Other methods of randomization may be substituted for flipping a coin as long as there are two possible outcomes of equal likelihood and all players agree to the substitution. For example, the player may roll an even-sided die and call “odds” or “evens,” or roll an even-sided die and designate that “odds” means “heads” and “evens” means “tails.”


AWOL doesn't contradict rules, so it isn't covered under 101.1, it makes a whole new zone, which needs a rule for the zone. That is something that needs a rule to do.

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 Post subject: Re: Exile Crazy?
AgePosted: 2015-Oct-18 2:23 pm 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Apparently you're not familiar with Goblin bookie. None of those rules help with it. All you did was show the rules on how to flip a coin. (of which there are plenty of black-border cards that flip coins, so it's not like it was put into the rules for Goblin Bookie.)

Check out The Rules manager on the subject: http://tabakrules.tumblr.com/post/124937229459/goblin-bookie-doesnt-work-now-per-mark-and-the

It's an activated ability that needs to be activated as part of a replacement of an event -- not something the rules allow.

Even MaRo agrees it doesn't work in black-border rules, but does in silver: http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/25932557836/someone-pointed-out-earlier-that-goblin-bookie

No rules for Un- cards are in the main rules, unless the main rules require those rules for something else.

tgambitg wrote:
Actually, they had to update the rules for a lot of the attributes of a card specifically for the Un sets. There are rules to identify every part of the card, like artist, set, typeline, etc...

This is pretty bogus. Set was originally used for cards like City in a Bottle & Apocalypse Chime (until they changed the functionality of those cards.); typeline obviously has black-border uses (Legendary rule, World cards, tribal, etc.); artist gets a brief note as "information below the text box" (Rule 212.1a).

I really think you're seeing things where there isn't anything to really see.


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