Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2019-May-24 4:25 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Allowing Planeswalkers as Commanders
AgePosted: 2013-Dec-04 10:50 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2012-Dec-04 3:38 pm
Age: Dragon
So I've come up with this idea : why do not allow Planeswalkers to become generals of their own decks in addition at the rest of the legends available? It would be super-cool, I think. I already talk about that with my local playgroup and they're all enthusiastic about it. If a PW general is too OP for the meta, is very simple, ban it, with unanymous consensus, like it usually happens even in the regular EDH (anyway I don't think any of the PW around would worth the ban in a casual multiplayer enviroment. If a PW it's oppressive versus a single opponent, there is plenty of answers from the rest of a table made of 3, 4 or even 5 players).

And what are the best Planewalkers for a very fun deck? Obviously, the narrowest ones, the PW which you never put in random deck just because are legal for the colors and require indeed an entire build around to be interestings and effective enough for be used. For example :

- Koth of the Hammer. Good only in mono-red decks, and even in that case, not every decks would want Koth for their purposes (example, Goblin Tribal ones). As a general, it would really shines in his build were mountains are really not just regular lands.

- Nissa Revane. Did somebody ever saw her outside really heavy mono-green elfball decks Ezuri-like? I wuould love to make a tribal around her, just to be sure to finally make her ultimate epic win (preferably with a Concordant Crossroads on the board).

- Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. Unlike his doppelganger Tezzeret the Seeker who would easily be just an Arcum Daggson spark ascended, it would be very fun and exciting to build a deck about the semi-random ability of dark Tezzy : a kinda Mayael the Anima for artifacts!


But those were just examples. We got Planeswalkers for all sort of strategies! Mill, token, control, voltron (Jideon Jura anyone?), aggro, combo, etc. The downside? As now there aren't so much PW printed in the game, but that's just a matter of time. WotC will always print Planeswalkers and at least 5 new each expert block.


It's really simple : just have the choice to use a Planewalker instead of a legend for build a EDH deck about your general, and for the rest it will follow exatly all the other rules which all the Generals submit to. the PW will cost 2 more for each time it would go in a graveyard or is exiled from every zone but you decide to save him in the command zone, it can be shuffled in the library (chaos warp, hinder, etc.), can win via general combat damage (but that works well only for Gideon Jura or for any general PW creaturized by strange combos as march of the machines + mycosinth lattice), etc.

Some will say that PW are for nature and mechanic too powerful to be beated multiple times in a virtually infinite recasting of them. For example, they bypass regular removals (Wrath of God, Murder, Toxic Deluge, etc.) and none of them got summoning weakness so that they will do immediately and always at least one of their 3 abilities.

I will answer : that's true, but it's true also that most of the played and staple removals of the format also work with the Planeswalkers (with single target : Chaos Warp, Beast Within, Oblation, Vindicate, Maelstrom Pulse. Mass removal : All is Dust, Oblivion Stone, Planar Cleansing, Gaze of Granite, etc. and the first two can be put it in every EDH decks). Also, to not forget the big non combat-damage burn spells which can be redirect to planeswalkers. And anyway, Wizards is and will print cards which allow more and more answers to planeswalkers (see Dreadbore, Hero's Downfall, Merciless Eviction , etc.)


Also, PW got a weakness which make them far more fragile than creatures in another way : they can be attacked by any number of creatures of any players, and is not that easy to protect planeswalkers outside narrow strategies since it doesn't exist for them the equivalent of a Darksteel Plate or Lighting Graves used to protect creatures. Sure, we got stuff like Sphere of Safety, but again, narrow cards for very specific builds and strategy. Which I think it's very good for a healthy meta enviroment. And that's why I think allowing PW as generals would make way more richer, funnier and deeper the EDH format. Also, flavorwise is perfect : who, better than Planewalkers can be the perfect leader of an army or the possessor of a magic book, your deck?)


So, what do you think about it? (again, I apologize as always for my bad grammar, I hope my message was clear enough). Also, I would appreciate very much the opinion of someone of the EDH committee, and if is possible that one day will be officially possible to do this. After all the rules in the past changed only to allow at the time as generals very few creatures like Memnarch or Thelon, and I think that this time the benefits would be way more huge than before.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Planeswalkers as Commanders
AgePosted: 2013-Dec-04 11:03 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Using Planeswalkers as commanders is broken. Utterly. Unless its Tibalt or one of the bad Chandras (all of them) Most of the walkers are just to good to have reliable access to them. Xenagos is absurd ramp + tokens for protection, Venser is blink dream, Elsepth 1.0 is just ... well. I can get Elspeth 1.0 to 8 to quickly. Ajani Vengeant BLOWS UP LANDS for one player.

And JTMS. Lets not go there. Blue decks too good already.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Planeswalkers as Commanders
AgePosted: 2013-Dec-04 11:36 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2012-Dec-04 3:38 pm
Age: Dragon
Joz wrote:
Using Planeswalkers as commanders is broken. Utterly. Unless its Tibalt or one of the bad Chandras (all of them) Most of the walkers are just to good to have reliable access to them. Xenagos is absurd ramp + tokens for protection, Venser is blink dream, Elsepth 1.0 is just ... well. I can get Elspeth 1.0 to 8 to quickly. Ajani Vengeant BLOWS UP LANDS for one player.

And JTMS. Lets not go there. Blue decks too good already.



Don't know how it works your meta, but I'm pretty sick of mono-blue (Teferi, Azami) or tutor-in-a-stick-for-grief-combo-pieces-commanders (Arcum, Zur), and I'm the opinion that the tutor-in-a-stick all counterspell deck are far way the worst to play with in term of fun and gameplay.

But nobody scream to ban Arcum or Zur or Teferi, even if the 90% of the deck lists of the internet uses the same and annoying nasty combos to win with.

Anyway, now I can understand Venser can be a problem because the guy for protect the PW can use lot of bounce/exile/counterspells, but Elspeth....really? And Xenagos would protect himself? With a vanilla 2/2 which can be stumped by a random green tampler or other color flyer? And Ajani? Before he can reach his -7, Numot the Devastator already destroyed all the lands of one player.




Also, I talk about Multiplayer enviroment. Not duel. So, if your Jace the Mind Sculptor will bounce forever my general, it will be easily killed by the creature/removal of another player, and if recast, killed again by the creatures/removals of that player, and if the super-Jace deck would try to stop that player, a third player will kick the ass to Jace and so on. I think you really understimate how is actually really bad for a planeswalker being able to die by a permanent and repeateble common resource of his opponents, the creatures. Not only one, but many, many creatures. It's like for a creature being killed by multiple lightning bolts with zero mana cost and zero buyback cost.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Planeswalkers as Commanders
AgePosted: 2013-Dec-09 9:36 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-May-04 9:09 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Saskatchewan
A group I played in did this once or twice for a few nights. We had two very enthusiastic players, and the rest of us got tired of it real quick, mostly because it was busted. Blue planeswalker's tended to dominate over the rest.

My word of advice: Ban Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker before you even begin trying this. It will be for the better for various reasons.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Planeswalkers as Commanders
AgePosted: 2014-May-17 12:27 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2014-May-17 12:18 pm
Age: Egg
Location: Southern Illinois
In my playgroup, we play with PW as generals separate from the rules of normal EDH. The PW deck can only include 65 cards (PW is 65th) in a singleton format, your PW can only use his/her first ability the turn he/she was cast and if you die, the PW assumes control of your spells and you may continue playing for as long as your PW is alive. After you die however, you may not regain your life and all attacks/spells that target players are automatically directed to your PW. So far it has been quite fun and balanced. The only card we've banned is Doubling Season (I'm sure more will be added as decks evolve and new PW are acquired).

_________________
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Planeswalkers as Commanders
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-27 6:06 am 

Joined: 2011-Apr-07 11:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Now there are quite a few planeswalkers. Maybe it's time to consider making Planeswalker commander a format.

Planeswalkers by color:

Mono:
White 10
Blue 9
Black 6
Red 9
Green 7

2 color
WU 2
UB 2
BR 1
RG 4
GW 1

WB 3
BG 3
GU 2
UR 2
RW 2
Shard:
WUB -
UBR 1
BRG -
RGW -
GWU -

Wedge:
WUR -
UBG -
BRW -
RGU 1
GWB -

The lack of 3 colors kind of holds this back, but there are now options for every 2 color. That was the biggest issue I saw with planeswalkers as commanders last time I looked.

Updated post shadows over innistrad: more options for some color combos, mostly mono colors. No new 3 color options.

_________________
http://legendarycommander.blogspot.com/

Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron