MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/

Commander has it's problems
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12252
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Author:  Buthrakaur [ 2013-Oct-10 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Commander has it's problems

Joz wrote:
I honestly don't think I'm playing the same format as any of you...

I actually like it when my opponents are having fun too.



So true. My play group is small for a reason, and we collaboratively police our decks to make sure overly degenerate things stay out of them. The majority of the people on these boards even, which is more laid back and casual that most collections of EDH players I have see, include things in their decks that we view as too much. We don't actually house ban cards often, only 4 or 5 have made it that far, but it is about the unfun and degenerate combinations of cards.

If you respect your group and respect the game, it is fun. Unfortunately, my experience at LGSs, Grand Prix, and Cons has been that the majority of the EDH community are self centered pricks with no concept of "others matter too."

Author:  Epsilon [ 2013-Oct-10 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Commander has it's problems

green slime wrote:
Epsilon wrote:
green slime wrote:
Mana Drain is much less impressive in EDH, than legacy.


Are we playing the same format?


http://www.dragonhighlander.net/Forum/v ... f=3&t=4205

Apparently. We might not be reading the same message board though....


Nothing in that three year old thread suggests it's not an amazing spell... only that other options might be more useful in multiplayer. In fact, several people noted they don't play it because it's TOO strong.

Author:  YawgsAgenda510 [ 2013-Oct-11 1:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Commander has it's problems

Buthrakaur wrote:
Joz wrote:
I honestly don't think I'm playing the same format as any of you...

I actually like it when my opponents are having fun too.



So true. My play group is small for a reason, and we collaboratively police our decks to make sure overly degenerate things stay out of them....

If you respect your group and respect the game, it is fun. Unfortunately, my experience at LGSs, Grand Prix, and Cons has been that the majority of the EDH community are self centered pricks with no concept of "others matter too."


QFT. Had to bump, man. This is right on.

Author:  green slime [ 2013-Oct-11 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Commander has it's problems

green slime wrote:
Mana Drain is much less impressive in EDH, than legacy.


Epsilon wrote:
Are we playing the same format?


green slime wrote:
http://www.dragonhighlander.net/Forum/v ... f=3&t=4205

Apparently. We might not be reading the same message board though....


Epsilon wrote:
Nothing in that three year old thread suggests it's not an amazing spell... only that other options might be more useful in multiplayer. In fact, several people noted they don't play it because it's TOO strong.


Somehow, I get the distinct feeling you are just trying to be argumentative.

Author:  sniper_ix [ 2013-Oct-11 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Commander has it's problems

Commander is played with Vintage legal cards. What do you expect it to be? Even Standard legal cards can be brutal. Modern even moreso. Legacy is the epitome of douchebaggetry. Vintage? It's legacy on steroids.


The funnest games are those where each player has minimal legacy cards in their decks. It's only when someone sits down with their 800 dollar vintage deck, drops mana crypt sol ring and goes off on t3 that it's a shit format.

Author:  Zirilan of the Claw [ 2013-Oct-11 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Commander has it's problems

Commander got 99 problems, but Fun ain't one.

Commander decks also have 99 cards in them, and the Commander ain't one. Coincidence? I think not.

Author:  tempesteye [ 2013-Oct-11 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Commander has it's problems

sniper_ix wrote:
The only problem with commander is fast mana. This is a famous quote (not word for word), "If people used the moxen and lotus to power out a turn 2 shivan dragon, it wouldn't be a problem."

I almost always want to pick up my deck every time someone lands t1 sol ring/crypt -> signet. T2 they have 5 mana, which in most cases quickly degenerates in to combo/lock before turn 4.

If the tier 1 mana rocks were banned, games would be much more pleasant. I don't think it is oppressive at all for a player to land T5 Mikey (signet/everflowing/dynamo etc) and then try to resolve T6 trisky. As a combo player myself, I usually NEVER try to resolve a single combo piece and pasing turn...it's way too easy to disrupt that way. I see mikey/triskey as a turn 12 (land drop every turn w/o mana rocks) combo. Turn 12 I would hope the game is nearly over anyways, so I should either be dead or in good position to resolve my combo.

/2 cents


This is the quote:

"I'm sure there were kids using Lotus Petal years ago to put out first-turn Warrior en-Kor, and they were left scratching their heads when the Petal was banned. And maybe, just maybe, a guy somewhere was sacrificing Black Lotuses to power out early War Mammoths, and wondered why in the heck Wizards felt the need to create a Restricted List."

From the article:
Skullclamp, We Hardly Knew Ye
Aaron Forsythe
Friday, June 04, 2004

Link:
https://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/ ... daily/af17

Author:  crokaycete [ 2013-Oct-12 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Commander has it's problems

That article really brings back memories. Man... T3 Vernal Bloom into T4 T&N entwined. And that deck still lost to Affinity most of the time. (And Vernal Bloom is a pretty sweet EDH card that I haven't thought about in a long time...)

Author:  Rasalom [ 2014-Mar-05 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Commander has it's problems

It's not the game... it's the players. If your group is seeing people combo out on turn 7-10, why are you guys letting them live that long?

The social contract is alive and well... Just say.. hmm.. another combo... guess you die first. We do that all the time... if you combo out for the win all the time, you get to find yourself dead first, and then enjoy sitting around for the next hour or so until the game ends.

We have actually had a guy combo out before the "spike"... he killed the spike (say with Mike & Trike), and then said go. We all laughed.... except the dude that was packing up his shit and leaving cause he was so pissed off.

If your play group lets that happen, then it's on all of you. People learn, if you do that all the time, you will not be playing very much....

Author:  osieorb18 [ 2014-May-06 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Commander has it's problems

Joz wrote:
I honestly don't think I'm playing the same format as any of you...

I actually like it when my opponents are having fun too.


I agree wholeheartedly.

A lot of this thread kinda hurts to read. The OP sounds like someone who rarely played with friends, someone who is getting frustrated by particular cards and combinations thereof that are good against his decks specifically, not necessarily in the format as a whole, and someone who is trying to fit a square peg (their desires for games) into a round hole (the places they go).

That said, there are things that I see in OP's statements that are reminiscent of groups and players I have encountered. I personally dislike the phrase "the spirit of EDH." Combo and lockdown decks are recognizably two of the stronger archetypes in the format.

But, these are not end-all be-all elements of the format, and I have never heard of a meta that is as messed up as the one that OP describes. It sounds like a story thought up by a disgruntled player one night as they were out drinking after a night with a bad game or two.

Author:  nealblind [ 2014-May-12 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Commander has it's problems

Joz wrote:
I honestly don't think I'm playing the same format as any of you...

I actually like it when my opponents are having fun too.


Sooo you like it when one of your opponents combos out turn turn and two of your three opponents autolose? Oh wait, they probably aren't having fun if they lose turn two.

You're missing the point. Just because one person is having fun doesn't mean everyone is having fun. Combo is typical non-interactive anti-social fun for one. It makes games predictable and boring.

The best fix for this is playing for second place without the combo player. Sure they get their win, but everybody else gets to keep playing.

Author:  Joz [ 2014-May-12 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Commander has it's problems

nealblind wrote:
Joz wrote:
I honestly don't think I'm playing the same format as any of you...

I actually like it when my opponents are having fun too.


Sooo you like it when one of your opponents combos out turn turn and two of your three opponents autolose? Oh wait, they probably aren't having fun if they lose turn two.

You're missing the point. Just because one person is having fun doesn't mean everyone is having fun. Combo is typical non-interactive anti-social fun for one. It makes games predictable and boring.

The best fix for this is playing for second place without the combo player. Sure they get their win, but everybody else gets to keep playing.

Wut?

Author:  Tim Proctor [ 2014-May-14 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Commander has it's problems

I, like other people like it when it is like a board game and it is a balanced board. While one person may win... everyone gets to play. I think playgroups have the problem of not matching their likes up with others and then people are playing different games.

Author:  SamsWrath [ 2018-Dec-16 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Commander has it's problems

I can't play with Casual groups because my decks are fully optimized and can (with the right draw) combo off and win Turns 0-1. The people I play with also run Fast-Combo or Control/Stax. None of us can play with "Casual" players because we're "Those terrible people who build good decks and play good cards." Fast-combo players can't play at the kiddie table because we win too fast and the casuals complain, "We don't get to play Magic." Stax/Control players can't play at the kiddie table because their play-style and deck construction makes it so the casuals complain, "We don't get to play Magic."

In my opinion, every player should strive to build the very best possible deck that he/she can build. There's nothing wrong with competitive play. However, I find your post strange in the sense that you're complaining about Turn 10 combo wins. Turn 10 means you probably had 1-2 hour games before someone finally won. Long games that don't end until Turn 10 are the epitome of a Casual Pod.

To each there own as well. If you don't like Fast-Combo and/or Stax/Control then don't play with people who do. I prefer fast games. I'd rather play 10 pods in 2 hours than 1 Pod in 2 hours. Playing that many games in an afternoon allows myself and the others in my playgroup to really mix up the fun by swapping in different decks with each new game. I'd rather play with all 5 of my cEDH decks in a single afternoon than play only 1 of them because the Pod took so long that the day is over and its time for everyone to go home.

Fun is subjective. You should do your best to find what YOU consider to be fun. Don't hate on others simply because you disagree with their version of fun. Live and let live!

Author:  Shabbaman [ 2018-Dec-16 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Commander has it's problems

And you also like to reanimate threads. Nice.

SamsWrath wrote:
In my opinion, every player should strive to build the very best possible deck that he/she can build.


But people do that. The thing is, their goal differs from yours, so they end up with decks incomparable to yours.

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