MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander
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Proposed Rule 14: A clarification
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19055
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Author:  Sid the Chicken [ 2019-Feb-16 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Proposed Rule 14: A clarification

Since rule 4 is the one that states the size of the commander deck, it seems to me this should be rule 4A, or a direct part of rule 4.

ebyers4 wrote:
I have learned that there are pockets in places of people who play Commander with a 10 card sideboard. Everyone reveals their Commander and they take a few minutes to sideboard appropriately based on this information.

A while back this was present on the rules page as an "optional rule", which many people have latched onto. It has since been removed. Personally I am strongly against such sideboarding for the same reasons I am strongly against wishes. The only difference is when it's being done.

Author:  Carthain [ 2019-Feb-19 1:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Proposed Rule 14: A clarification

ebyers4 wrote:
a lot of shops use those baseline rules for their gameplay. ... Its also consistent, allowing me to walk into any of the LGS's in the area and understand what I am getting into.

Except, even if most stores use the given rules as a baseline, walking into any new store could be one of the few that has house-rules in effect -- so you in fact wouldn't know what you are getting into. So that argument is kind of bogus.

Author:  ebyers4 [ 2019-Feb-21 12:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Proposed Rule 14: A clarification

Carthain wrote:
Except, even if most stores use the given rules as a baseline, walking into any new store could be one of the few that has house-rules in effect -- so you in fact wouldn't know what you are getting into. So that argument is kind of bogus.

I do not consider myself a world traveler by any means. But I have yet to encounter an LGS -personally- that does not follow the baseline rules.
I also have yet to encounter a playgroup that played outside of those rules.

But that is just a personal experience thing. There is no real data collection on this sort of thing, so its hard to say X% of LGS do this or that.

Even if you consider that argument bogus, having a clear and defined set of baseline rules is still important, even if those rules get modified on the game by game level.

Author:  specter404 [ 2019-Mar-03 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Proposed Rule 14: A clarification

papa_funk wrote:
There isn't an explicit rule about sideboards because it wouldn't do anything.

I can appreciate the standard approach to rules systems as complex as those for magic being to make them as streamlined as possible. However the profit/loss margin here seems like it should be in the black.

One line of text: Sideboards, by default, are not used in Commander.

Sideboards are used in every other commonly played format, this is a strange feature of our game so I think it is worth calling it out for the sake of people in the community who need that.

It might not do anything, but at least then it's clear that it does nothing.Null Rod

Author:  Willbender [ 2019-Mar-03 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Proposed Rule 14: A clarification

specter404 wrote:
papa_funk wrote:
There isn't an explicit rule about sideboards because it wouldn't do anything.
I can appreciate the standard approach to rules systems as complex as those for magic being to make them as streamlined as possible. However the profit/loss margin here seems like it should be in the black.

One line of text: Sideboards, by default, are not used in Commander.

Sideboards are used in every other commonly played format, this is a strange feature of our game so I think it is worth calling it out for the sake of people in the community who need that.
Absolutely this. When new players enter a new format, they learn the differences from base (tournament) Magic rules. Anything not spelled out is assumed to be the same as what they did before, sideboards included. Running an LGS, I will tell you 100% that the "sideboards do/don't exist" argument does come up, and the lack of it being explicit on the Commander rules page is a major argument of the "it's not banned so of course it's allowed" side. Since Rule 13 is in existence partly because of the lack of sideboards, how about we just add it to that rule?

13. Sideboards, by default, are not used in Commander. Abilities which refer to other cards owned outside the game (Wishes, Spawnsire, Research, Ring of Ma'ruf) do not function in Commander without prior agreement on their scope from the playgroup.

Author:  Sid the Chicken [ 2019-Mar-03 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Proposed Rule 14: A clarification

Willbender wrote:
Since Rule 13 is in existence partly because of the lack of sideboards, how about we just add it to that rule?

That feels a bit wonky to me because the "wishes target sideboard cards" rule is part of the Magic Tournament Rules and NOT part of the Comprehensive Rules. It implies a logical link that doesn't quite work. That said, the people that would really want sideboards probably are also the sort that would really want wishes, and are also the sort of people that would come from a tournament environment, so this is probably reasonable. Yes, I know I'm making broad generalizations. Sue me.

Author:  spacemonaut [ 2019-Mar-04 3:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Proposed Rule 14: A clarification

Sid the Chicken wrote:
Willbender wrote:
Since Rule 13 is in existence partly because of the lack of sideboards, how about we just add it to that rule?

That feels a bit wonky to me because the "wishes target sideboard cards" rule is part of the Magic Tournament Rules and NOT part of the Comprehensive Rules. It implies a logical link that doesn't quite work. That said, the people that would really want sideboards probably are also the sort that would really want wishes, and are also the sort of people that would come from a tournament environment, so this is probably reasonable. Yes, I know I'm making broad generalizations. Sue me.


I don't think that's anything any of us need to worry about. The EDH RC doesn't administer the MTR or the CR, they just administer the EDH rules. It's up to Wizards how they want to translate the EDH rules into the documents they themselves maintain. As far as the EDH rules go it makes sense to say those things together in the same rule.

Hopefully they would put the “no sideboards” thing into the CR though, since a bunch of people believe Wizards authors the format.

Author:  Sid the Chicken [ 2019-Mar-04 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Proposed Rule 14: A clarification

spacemonaut wrote:
Hopefully they would put the “no sideboards” thing into the CR though

Hopefully EVERYTHING the RC puts on the official rules page will be mirrored in the CR, because consistent rules are a good thing.

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