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 Post subject: Updated Hazezon Tamar EDH Deck (Used to be Rith)
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-16 11:07 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-16 10:49 pm
Age: Wyvern
Here is my Hazezon Tamar list.

Budget is of no concern so any suggestions are welcome.

Land (40)
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Arid Mesa
1x Boros Garrison
1x Copperline Gorge
1x Deserted Temple
1x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Gruul Turf
1x Jungle Shrine
1x Kor Haven
1x Krosan Verge
1x Maze of Ith
1x Mistveil Plains
1x Mosswort Bridge
1x Mountain
1x Mystifying Maze
1x Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1x Petrified Field
1x Plains
1x Plateau
1x Raging Ravine
1x Razorverge Thicket
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Rootbound Crag
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Savannah
1x Selesnya Sanctuary
1x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Snow-Covered Mountain
1x Snow-Covered Plains
1x Spinerock Knoll
1x Stirring Wildwood
1x Stomping Ground
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Taiga
1x Temple Garden
1x Temple of the False God
1x Windbrisk Heights
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills

Enchantment (20)
1x Abundance
1x Aura Shards
1x Beastmaster Ascension
1x Doubling Season
1x Dual Nature
1x Earthcraft
1x Fires of Yavimaya
1x Glare of Subdual
1x Goblin Bombardment
1x In the Web of War
1x Luminarch Ascension
1x Mana Reflection
1x Martyr's Cause
1x Mirari's Wake
1x Night Soil
1x Perilous Forays
1x Sylvan Library
1x Symbiotic Deployment
1x True Conviction
1x Vicious Shadows

Sorcery (12)
1x Collective Unconscious
1x Decree of Justice
1x Gelatinous Genesis
1x Hour of Reckoning
1x Martial Coup
1x Overrun
1x Overwhelming Stampede
1x Recross the Paths
1x Skyshroud Claim
1x Storm Herd
1x Titanic Ultimatum
1x Warp World

Creature (20)
1x Ant Queen
1x Avenger of Zendikar
1x Balefire Liege
1x Boartusk Liege
1x Captain of the Watch
1x Citanul Hierophants
1x Dauntless Escort
1x Deranged Hermit
1x Dragon Broodmother
1x Hazezon Tamar
1x Mirror Entity
1x Nullmage Shepherd
1x Primeval Titan
1x Regal Force
1x Selesnya Guildmage
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Sigil Captain
1x Verdant Force
1x Wilt-Leaf Liege
1x Wood Elves

Artifact (6)
1x Ashnod's Altar
1x Crystal Ball
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
1x Tormod's Crypt

Instant (2)
1x Artifact Mutation
1x Aura Mutation


Last edited by Njay225 on 2010-Nov-05 12:29 pm, edited 8 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rith, the Awakener
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-17 1:47 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jun-13 2:13 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Memphis, TN
I count 2 ways each to deal with artifacts and enchantments. I count zero ways to control graveyards. You have explosiveness, but I think you need fewer token generators and more card draw and answers. When your General is a super efficient token-maker, why do you want to spend draw steps on token makers that are less efficient?

I haven't found Rise of the Hobgoblins to be very good. Or Wolfbriar Elemental in decks with more than two colors. I don't like Nomad's Assembly because it only works if you have a board position already. As a creature-based deck, your main obstacle every game will be the need to repeatedly rebuild your board from scratch.

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CR 905.1. Haters gonna hate. It's not a may ability.
Were you blown away by the insight and hilarity of this post? Damn. Try CommanderCast anyway!


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 Post subject: Re: Rith, the Awakener
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-17 11:00 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-16 10:49 pm
Age: Wyvern
Excellent points. What artifact and enchantment hate would you suggest. I know I should have aura shards but what else? And what graveyard hate would be best?


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 Post subject: Re: Rith, the Awakener
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-17 8:52 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jun-13 2:13 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Memphis, TN
In Red-Green-White, you have many options for destroying noncreature permanents. Some are better than others. You already mentioned Aura Shards, which is one of the best. You almost can't have enough artifact/enchantment destruction, since most of the good ones come with a body or a draw attached. Off the top of my head...

Viridian Shaman
Acidic Slime
Woodfall Primus
Rootgrapple
Mold Shambler
Mystic Melting (or the Scars upgrade, Slice in Twain)
Hull Breach
Decimate
Vithian Renegades
Harmonic Sliver
Indrik Stomphowler
Relic Crush
Fracturing Gust
Shattering Spree

Neutralizing graveyard is essential. I try to run at least 4 cards that can do it. Try these:

Relic of Progenitus
Tormod's Crypt
Scrabbling Claws
Gaea's Blessing
Morningtide
Loaming Shaman
Primal Command

_________________
CR 905.1. Haters gonna hate. It's not a may ability.
Were you blown away by the insight and hilarity of this post? Damn. Try CommanderCast anyway!


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 Post subject: Re: Rith, the Awakener
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-18 2:32 am 

Joined: 2008-May-01 3:07 am
Age: Dragon
2 more artifact/enchantment destruction:

Austere Command (doubles as Wrath, which is nice)
Seed Spark (on theme)

And yes, you really need Aura Shards, that card is bonkers.
You should consider Warp World as well. You probably have more permanents than anyone else with a token deck, so chances are you'll have a better board position afterwards. I sometimes use it to get rid of annoying artifacts and enchantments too :P.

1 more gravehate:

Night Soil, it's pretty narrow, but on theme.



Also, I wouldn't play too many 1-shot cards that do nothing when you have no tokens in play, like Hellion Eruption, Nomad's Assembly, Parallel Evolution, Saproling Symbiosis. I's rather have more independent tokenproducers or permanent token buffs, but I think you have plenty of those.

I'm also not sure about Overwhelming Stampede. It's insane if your general/any other fatty is in play, but with only tokens it's lackluster.

Last suggestion: add Earthcraft, it can make so much mana it's ridiculous.

_________________
Generals:
Endrek (my main squeeze)
Yeva, Nature's Herald (hold on, I have a response)
Kami of the Crescent Moon (mass draw, bounce and shenanigans)
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs (you did this to yourself: mono red edition)


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 Post subject: Re: Rith, the Awakener
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-19 8:38 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-16 10:49 pm
Age: Wyvern
I'm going to try to pick up Aura Shards, Night Soil, and maybe a Decimate as well tomorrow when I head down to my local card shop.

I know cards like Nomad's Assembly and such aren't good if I don't have any tokens in play. But my playgroup is really light on wrath effects and these cards really help me turn a decent board position into a great one.

Except Hellion Eruption, thats never really done good for me but I still have hope for it lol. If I notice any of these cards start to be dead draws too often I will definitely cut them though.

Likely changes for tomorrow will be as follows

-1 Wolfbriar Elemental
+1 Aura Shards

-1 Rise of the Hobgoblins
+1 Night Soil

-1 ????
+1 Decimate

And maybe I will find room for some more graveyard hate but there is already so much in my playgroup that I usually just use politics to get someone else to remove troublesome graveyards.


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 Post subject: Re: Rith, the Awakener
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-20 7:41 am 

Joined: 2008-Sep-26 1:00 pm
Age: Drake
Nullmage Shepherd is another good way to Disenchant things in a token deck. It's also much cheaper than Aura Shards (although I'd definitely run both if possible).

EDIT: I fail at reading.

Squirrely makes a good point about cutting cards that don't work without a board position.

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Teneb, the Harvester
Fifty-dollar Sharuum
Geth, Lord of the Vault
Akroma, Angel of Wrath


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 Post subject: Re: Rith, the Awakener
AgePosted: 2010-Sep-20 11:13 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-16 10:49 pm
Age: Wyvern
Played a couple games with the deck today. It definitely needs some work, there is some cards that I just really don't like to see in my hand. Some of them are:

Mana Flare
Heartbeat of Spring

I played the Heartbeat one game and it completely and utterly backfired. If anyone has had better experiences with them let me know.

I swear there was more but I am too tired now to remember, will probably update more tomorrow.

Also made the two changes for Aura Shards and Night Soil, will update deck list soon to reflect them.

And finally, before I pass out, some cards I was considering adding.

Eldrazi Monument
Martyrs Cause
Sigil Captain
Nacatl War-Pride
Dauntless Escort
Citanul Hierophants
Earthcraft


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 Post subject: Re: Rith, the Awakener
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-07 11:20 am 

Joined: 2009-Oct-05 10:01 am
Age: Hatchling
I've been playing rith for almost two years.

It has turned almost a complete 180, I used to play it to generate tokens. It has since turned into a "big mana" ramp deck, and it's about 100 times more fun AND more effective this way.

I play all the good mana accell. - Nature's Lore, Farseek, etc. as well as just about every mana flare effect. Rith on turn three (which is normal) is ridiculous. I do what i can to give him doublestrike. Alternate win conditions include making tokens/mirror entity/the "overrun" ultimatum (name escapes me at the moment) or various other huge things - Hellkites, Flameblast Dragons, Wurmcoil Engines, Eldrazi, etc.

The great thing about mana flares is NO ONE will attack you, because you're the one making the game fun. I use dragon's breath (ridiculous), fires of yavimya and lightning greaves to keep him hasty.

Give this option a try. Getting Wrath'd no longer starts you to start over - you can just play another huge threat and get back in there.

Once i get home from work I'll post a comprehensive list.


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 Post subject: Re: Rith, the Awakener
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-07 11:54 am 
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Joined: 2010-Aug-06 1:54 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: USA
Njay225 wrote:
Likely changes for tomorrow will be as follows

-1 Wolfbriar Elemental
+1 Aura Shards

-1 Rise of the Hobgoblins
+1 Night Soil

-1 ????
+1 Decimate

I wouldn't run Decimate myself. I tried it in my Mayael deck for quite a while and was always stuck with not enough targets to cast. Return to Dust is amazing, as is Krosan Grip and Pure // Simple. Depending on just how much you care about the stuff in your graveyard, try really hard to run Relic of Progenitus or Tormod's Crypt. The Relic saved me in quite a few games.

_________________
A few of my EDH Generals:
~ Mayael the Anima - Mayael the 5-Power Stompy
~ Marath, Will of the Wild - An EDH Teacher deck (Tribal Beasts)
~ Rhys the Redeemed - Tokens... Why do they keep coming!?
~ Bosh, Iron Golem - Legend of the Iron Giants
~ Damia, Sage of Stone - All Creatures Great & Small


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 Post subject: Re: Rith, the Awakener
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-10 10:10 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-16 10:49 pm
Age: Wyvern
I've made a lot of changes, including putting some money in the mana base. Will post an updated list either tonight or early tomorrow.

And Meowth, I realize ramp would be better, and I know tokens is really a subpar strategy. But I like tokens, that's the reason I built this deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Rith, the Awakener
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-11 8:16 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-16 10:49 pm
Age: Wyvern
Posted an updated list, but wanted to note a few things.

-Still trying to obtain a Gaea's Cradle so I can add that, my Deserted Temple, and my Petrified Field
-Still can't manage to find a Warp World to test out
-Considering Regal Force, Collective Unconscious, and Coat of Arms
- Thinking about switching to Hazeon Tamar, which would involve dropping the extra combat phase cards, the Restock and the Eternal Witness for some sacrifice outlets, probably Goblin Bombardment, Perilous Forrays, and the two altars that add mana. It would also allow me to take out my token producers that require a board presence to work and add some general good stuff cards.

Opinions?


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 Post subject: Re: Rith, the Awakener
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-11 8:21 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-08 9:21 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
The dollar bins at my LGS are full of Warp Worlds!

_________________
Current generals:

Thraxiumundar - Sacrifice Effects
Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro - Shaman Tribal Ramp
Darien, King of Kjeldor - Go Ahead and Attack
Talrand, Sky Summoner - Nothin' but Counters, Bounce & Draw


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 Post subject: Re: Rith, the Awakener
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-11 8:47 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-16 10:49 pm
Age: Wyvern
I know I can't believe I don't have one! My LGS only does online orders unfortunately, and I won't place an order for just a warp world lol. But if I ever head to the shop farther away I will definitely pick one up from them. The more and more I think about that card the more sick things I realize it can achieve.


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 Post subject: Re: Rith, the Awakener
AgePosted: 2010-Oct-12 5:51 pm 

Joined: 2009-Oct-05 10:01 am
Age: Hatchling
I apologize if my post came off as condescending - I'm not necessarily saying it's "supbar". I was just pointing out that after years of playing Rith, having your tokens repeatedly blown up got old.

I didn't like the token theme/style too much, as I'd rather ramp into giant things during the beginning stages of the game but obviously it's entirely personal preference.

I can say that double striking Rith for double activation (and consequently, double general damage) is the balls regardless of strategy. You won't regret runes of the deus/rage reflection and the Boros Ravnica land that grants double strike for 2WR.

Just my .02.

Also, selesnya guildmage is absolutely ridiculous - this needs included.


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