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 Post subject: Creatures are for the Weak: Progenitus Planeswalker Control
AgePosted: 2010-Apr-02 9:29 pm 

Joined: 2010-Apr-02 6:44 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Flyover Country, United States
Hello All, Long time lurker, first time poster. I got back into the game about a year ago after a 10 year hiatus, and quickly discovered the best format ever. This is my current favorite new deck. Opinions are definitely welcome. Obviously it is a "F@(& Your creature strategy" deck.

General: Progenitus: 1

Planeswalkers: 9
1. Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
2. Sorin Markov
3. Liliana Vess
4. Tezzeret, the Seeker
5. Ajani Vengeant
6. Jace, The Mind Scuptor
7. Elpeth, knight errant
8. Garruk Wildspeaker
9. Gideon Jura

Mana Acceleration: 8
1. Sol Ring
2. Mana Vault
3. Mox Diamond
4. Fellwar Stone
5. Darksteel Ingot
6. Spectral Searchlight
7. Gilded Lotus
8. Mana Reflection

Tutors: 8
1. Demonic Tutor
2. Vampiric Tutor
3. Diabolic Tutor
4. Beseech the Queen
5. Lim Dul’s Vault
6. Mystical Tutor
7. Mystical Teachings
8. Enlightened Tutor

Card Draw: 5
1. Necropotence
2. Wheel of Fortune
3. Windfall
4. Stroke of Genius
5. Mind’s Eye

Sweepers/ Mass Removal: 11
1. Wrath of God
2. Damnation
3. Hallowed Burial
4. Decree of Pain
5. Final Judgment
6. Rout
7. Jokulhaups
8. Nevinyrral’s Disk
9. Austere Command
10. Starstorm
11. Catastrophe

Graveyard Recursion: 6
1. Regrowth
2. Praetor's Counsel
3. All Sun’s Dawn
4. Nostalgic Dreams
5. Reito Lantern
6. Replenish

Creature Control Enchantments/ Artifacts: 5
1. Icy Manipulator
2. Humility
3. Invoke Prejudice
4. Obelisk of Alara

Utility/ Targeted Removal: 5
1. Rings of Brighthearth
2. Tormod’s Crypt
3. Return to Dust
4. Capsize
5. Oblation

Power Plays: 4
1. Leyline of the Void
2. Helm of Obediance
3. Reverse the Sands
4. Doubling Season
5. Contagion Engine

Land: 38

Any Color Producers: 6
1. City of Brass
2. Rupture Spire
3. Exotic Orchard
4. Reflecting Pool
5. Grand Coliseum
6. Forbidden Orchard

Triple Lands: 5
7. Arcane Sanctum
8. Savage Lands
9. Crumbling Necropolis
10. Seaside Citadel
11. Jungle Shrine

Utility Lands: 5
12. Maze of Ith
13. Stripmine
14. Boseiju, Who Shelters all
15. Academy Ruins
16. Tolaria West

DualLands: 8
17. Underground Sea
18. Plateau
19. Badlands
20. Tundra
21. Scrubland
22. Bayou
23. Taiga
24. Savannah

Shocklands: 5
25. Watery Grave
26. Hallowed Fountain
27. Breeding Pool
28. Steam Vents
29. Godless Shrine

Filter Lands: 4
30. Sunken Ruins
31. Mystic Gate
32. Fetid Heath
33. Graven Cairns

Fetch Lands:5
34. Krosan Verge
35. Misty Rainforest
36. Marsh Flats
37. Flooded Strand
38. Polluted Delta

Updated List, for some reason the boards wouldn't let me edit the top post. I may eventually replace the Icy Manipulator with a Forcefield if I get my hand on an extra one.

Oh, and no making suggestions like "add imperial seal", 200 dollar sorcery speed vamp tutors are just silly.

Obviously cards like Humility and Invoke prejudice are MVP's.

So what do you all think?

Edited to update decklist.

_________________
My $.10

Generals:

Sharuum, the Hegemon (Currently Foiling)
Scion of the Ur-Dragon (currently Foiling)
Karn, Silver Golem
Hazezon Tamar
Zur the Enchanter
Riku of Two Reflections
Very-nearly-Creatureless Sliver Queen PLaneswalkers (under Construction)
Progenitus - Creatures are for the Weak Retired.
Child of Alara: Lich Combo (under construction)


Last edited by Courtland on 2011-Mar-18 10:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Creatures are for the Weak: Progenitus Planeswalker Control
AgePosted: 2010-Apr-02 11:02 pm 

Joined: 2010-Mar-26 7:26 pm
Age: Wyvern
needs more EE


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 Post subject: Re: Creatures are for the Weak: Progenitus Planeswalker Control
AgePosted: 2010-Apr-03 7:56 am 

Joined: 2010-Apr-02 6:44 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Flyover Country, United States
? EE?

_________________
My $.10

Generals:

Sharuum, the Hegemon (Currently Foiling)
Scion of the Ur-Dragon (currently Foiling)
Karn, Silver Golem
Hazezon Tamar
Zur the Enchanter
Riku of Two Reflections
Very-nearly-Creatureless Sliver Queen PLaneswalkers (under Construction)
Progenitus - Creatures are for the Weak Retired.
Child of Alara: Lich Combo (under construction)


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 Post subject: Re: Creatures are for the Weak: Progenitus Planeswalker Control
AgePosted: 2010-Apr-03 9:39 am 
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Joined: 2008-Aug-23 10:03 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: The Netherlands - Hoorn
I assume Engineered Explosives.

And does anyone has any fun playing against you with that many board sweepers? Must be boring.


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 Post subject: Re: Creatures are for the Weak: Progenitus Planeswalker Control
AgePosted: 2010-Apr-03 1:14 pm 

Joined: 2010-Apr-02 6:44 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Flyover Country, United States
Poesjuh wrote:
And does anyone has any fun playing against you with that many board sweepers? Must be boring.


...Says the guy with a Child of Alara deck? Really?

Seriously though I haven't really had any complaints. If I don't get pounded, or targeted by a big whisper-silk-cloaked Omnath I really don't have much of a need to sweep the board. Of course dropping an invoke Prejudice or Humility on the board does more or less make me THE target at the table. Hence 11 sweepers. The sweepers are really only there if I get ganged up on.

_________________
My $.10

Generals:

Sharuum, the Hegemon (Currently Foiling)
Scion of the Ur-Dragon (currently Foiling)
Karn, Silver Golem
Hazezon Tamar
Zur the Enchanter
Riku of Two Reflections
Very-nearly-Creatureless Sliver Queen PLaneswalkers (under Construction)
Progenitus - Creatures are for the Weak Retired.
Child of Alara: Lich Combo (under construction)


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 Post subject: Re: Creatures are for the Weak: Progenitus Planeswalker Control
AgePosted: 2010-Apr-04 12:03 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-02 5:26 am
Age: Drake
Location: Finland
I think Austere Command might be better than Akroma's Vengeance in this deck. You seem to be running fair amount of artifact ramp and enchantment's so I could imagine Vengeance hurting you almost as much as your opponents.

Nostalgic Dreams looks like it might be better than Recall. I think you could also consider Holistic Wisdom as a part of your recursion package. That card doesn't get much love, but I've seen it doing some insane shit.

Dueling Grounds and Meekstone can really hurt creature decks.

Quote:
I would like to find a way to work in Replenish, Top, Scroll rack, and maybee clockspinning. If I had a Sarkhan Vol I would like to add him too, the problem is there really is nothing I want to cut.

How about cutting some Sweepers? I can't possible imagine anyone needing that many, especially with the amount of recursion and tutors you are running. If someone's board gets out of hand, your opponents are likely to do some sweeping too. EDH ain't "You vs the World"... although I can imagine it becoming something like that when people get annoyed by you constantly wrathing their stuff away x)

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My decks:
Bladewing the Risen
Ghoulcaller Gisa
Kaalia of the Vast
Karametra, God of Harvests
Kumano, Master Yamabushi
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Radha, Heir to Keld
Ruhan of the Fomori


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 Post subject: Re: Creatures are for the Weak: Progenitus Planeswalker Control
AgePosted: 2010-Apr-04 4:38 pm 

Joined: 2010-Apr-02 6:44 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Flyover Country, United States
Thanks Sicktoid, that is exactly the type of feedback I am looking for.

I have had the same thought about Austere Command versus Akroma's Vengeance. The only reason I haven't made the swap yet is because Command still allows regeneration. That may not be a big enough deal for me to keep it out though.

I didn't even know about Nostalgic Dreams, hence why I wasn't running it. Having seen it though, and given that this is a 5 color deck, I think it would be strictly better in this case.

I actually had Meekstone in my original build of the deck and pulled it. While it was tutor-able with Tezzeret, it was just too easy to get around. It also proved to not be as efficient as just sweeping.

Dueling grounds looks good in theory. However the only games that I have lost so far I have lost to general damage; I have yet to hit 0 with this deck.

Courtland wrote:
How about cutting some Sweepers? I can't possible imagine anyone needing that many, especially with the amount of recursion and tutors you are running.


In my original build I was only running 8 sweepers and I found that it was kind of hit and miss as far as having one when I needed one. The other advantage I found is that having more sweepers lets me play a bit more aggressively if I want to, such as dropping an Early Humility as a way of keeping Sharuum, Omnath, or Uril off of their Shennanigans. I certainly don't always Want to sweep, but I almost always want to have one just in case.
I suppose I might be able to cut one of them, I am just not sure which one I would cut.

I have actually given half a though to cutting Mystical Teachings. As often as not I find that I HAVE to use it to Tutor for Vampiric tutor and I HATE tutoring for Tutors.

I REALLY need to add Replenish.

_________________
My $.10

Generals:

Sharuum, the Hegemon (Currently Foiling)
Scion of the Ur-Dragon (currently Foiling)
Karn, Silver Golem
Hazezon Tamar
Zur the Enchanter
Riku of Two Reflections
Very-nearly-Creatureless Sliver Queen PLaneswalkers (under Construction)
Progenitus - Creatures are for the Weak Retired.
Child of Alara: Lich Combo (under construction)


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 Post subject: Re: Creatures are for the Weak: Progenitus Planeswalker Control
AgePosted: 2010-Apr-04 10:51 pm 
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Joined: 2007-Oct-16 4:18 pm
Age: Dragon
You HAVE TO put a polymorph in here, along with some manlands or token generators (at least the Khalni Garden) and at least one Eldrazi. Worst case: cheat in a 15/15 with Annihilator 6 on turn 4 (yes, Polymorph and the Garden would become your default tutor targets). Best case, you get to hardcast it to end the game.
Or failing that, other methods of taking an extra turn are awesome with Planeswalkers - can you squeeze in a Time Warp?

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Formerly Graveborn Muse of Muse Vessel.


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 Post subject: Re: Creatures are for the Weak: Progenitus Planeswalker Control
AgePosted: 2010-Apr-05 5:17 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
I'd probably run the Garruk/Magosi combo, because I'm a tool. :twisted:
I'd also add in old Chandra, Elspeth, Sarkhan Vol and (once he's out) Gideon, because I love going all-in on things.

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Creatures are for the Weak: Progenitus Planeswalker Control
AgePosted: 2010-Apr-05 6:45 am 

Joined: 2010-Apr-02 6:44 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Flyover Country, United States
defenestrator: The whole point of the deck was to demonstrate to my group that ANSWERS are ALWAYS more efficient that threats. We have 3 Aggro/ midrange players and 1 other control player like me. The Control player gets it, everyone else still insists that "turning guys sideways" is the most efficient way to win. The whole point of the deck then IS that it is completely creatureless. If I add a creature it will be Phage for the people who occasionally run, or threaten to run, Telemin Performance.
The only token generator I would want to run would be Elspeth, but I don't have one, and given her current price (and a baby coming in 2 weeks) I don't think I will be buying one anytime soon. I did think about Timewarp, but honestly, its just not efficient enough, and I don't have room.

Sid: If I were going to combo with Magosi, and I have considered it, I would run Magosi, Minimo, and the Rings of brighthearth I am already running. It is one more card but is harder to disrupt, almost no one sees it coming, and once on the board it might as well be Tezzeret/ Timevault. Chandra was in the deck originally, but honestly, she just isn't good enough. Her ultimate isn't game winning in EDH unless you have a slew of creatures to attack with afterward (Which I never will). Most of the time she is just a 5 mana fireball. That makes her a 1 for 1 most of the time and thats just nowhere near good enough. I don't own a Garruk, and I am not sure he would be that good here. making beasts is Okay I guess, but I am running a lot of mana acceleration as it is. Elspeth I would like to run, but again, I don't have her. I did recently get a Sarkhan Vol and would like to include him, but I honestly have no idea what to pull for him. My main priority at the moment is to find a way to fit in Replenish. I may have to pull a sweeper for it, though I really don't want to.

_________________
My $.10

Generals:

Sharuum, the Hegemon (Currently Foiling)
Scion of the Ur-Dragon (currently Foiling)
Karn, Silver Golem
Hazezon Tamar
Zur the Enchanter
Riku of Two Reflections
Very-nearly-Creatureless Sliver Queen PLaneswalkers (under Construction)
Progenitus - Creatures are for the Weak Retired.
Child of Alara: Lich Combo (under construction)


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 Post subject: Re: Creatures are for the Weak: Progenitus Planeswalker Control
AgePosted: 2010-Apr-05 8:27 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Minamo, School at Water's Edge doesn't combo with Magosi, the Waterveil because, ridiculously enough, none of the Zendikar named rare lands (Magosi, Oran-Rief, Crypt, etc) are legendary. Rings/Garruk/Magosi does work however. But of course if you don't want the Magosi combo it doesn't matter.

If you're going to run cards like 'haups, you might as well make it Obliterate.

I'd cut the Starstorm for Sarkhan Vol. I'd cut Tidings for Replenish and replace Necropotence with Rhystic Study, because I don't like leaving myself open to Mindslaver kills.

If you're in the $$$ you could track down a The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. Expensive, but it's right up this deck's alley. A budget option might be Vile Consumption. Of course there's always the Magus, but that would break from your creatureless approach.

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Creatures are for the Weak: Progenitus Planeswalker Control
AgePosted: 2010-Apr-05 9:31 am 

Joined: 2010-Apr-02 6:44 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Flyover Country, United States
Sid the Chicken wrote:
If you're going to run cards like 'haups, you might as well make it Obliterate.


I thought about it, and decided I liked Catastrophe better. Most of the time its just a sweeper, but if I have great position and need it to blow up everyones lands, I can.

You are right about Magosi not being legendary, I guess I just always think it SHOULD be.

Necropotence is the best card draw in EDH bar none. I am not particularly worried about getting slavered when its on the board. Honestly, Telemin Performance or Helm of Obediance are much larger threats to me than MindSlaver. After all, I have to have Necropotence on board, without a way to get rid of it, and then they have to drop MindSlaver, and be able to use it without interruption.
I might be willing to cut Tidings for the Replenish though. I had been thinking about cutting it for Fact or Fiction, but you might be right; I think I will try that.

Ironically I sold both of my Tabernacles right before I got back into the game; I don't think I will be buying them back. Vile Consumption looks like a really good option that I was unaware of (since I wasn't playing when it came out.) though, and it would also play well with the Replenish.

Thanks for the input.

_________________
My $.10

Generals:

Sharuum, the Hegemon (Currently Foiling)
Scion of the Ur-Dragon (currently Foiling)
Karn, Silver Golem
Hazezon Tamar
Zur the Enchanter
Riku of Two Reflections
Very-nearly-Creatureless Sliver Queen PLaneswalkers (under Construction)
Progenitus - Creatures are for the Weak Retired.
Child of Alara: Lich Combo (under construction)


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 Post subject: Re: Creatures are for the Weak: Progenitus Planeswalker Control
AgePosted: 2010-Apr-05 9:51 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Courtland wrote:
Sid the Chicken wrote:
If you're going to run cards like 'haups, you might as well make it Obliterate.


I thought about it, and decided I liked Catastrophe better. Most of the time its just a sweeper, but if I have great position and need it to blow up everyones lands, I can.

I meant replace 'haups with Obliterate. This is a planeswalker/enchantment control deck, so if you blow all the non walker/enchantment permanents, you're pretty much winning. Which means if you try to resolve 'haups, anyone playing blue at the table should be saying "aw HELL no!" and countering that crap. Which is why you run the (nearly) uncounterable version instead.
Courtland wrote:
You are right about Magosi not being legendary, I guess I just always think it SHOULD be.

Completely agree.
Courtland wrote:
Necropotence is the best card draw in EDH bar none. I am not particularly worried about getting slavered when its on the board. Honestly, Telemin Performance or Helm of Obediance are much larger threats to me than MindSlaver. After all, I have to have Necropotence on board, without a way to get rid of it, and then they have to drop MindSlaver, and be able to use it without interruption.

I think you underestimate the study. Many people do, which is part of why it's so awesome. If your playgroup is attacking your deck with Telemin et al, try Wheel of Sun & Moon on yourself.
Courtland wrote:
Ironically I sold both of my Tabernacles right before I got back into the game; I don't think I will be buying them back.

Bad timing sir, bad timing. At least you probably got some good $$$ for them - tabernacles aren't cheap!

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Creatures are for the Weak: Progenitus Planeswalker Control
AgePosted: 2010-Apr-05 10:17 am 
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Joined: 2008-May-05 5:03 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Algalord
You might want to add Vengeful Rebirth (oh, you killed Nikky B. Take eight) to your recursion, as well as Recollect (which I assume you just plain forgot about). Open the Vaults is another recursion card that I would add, it may help your opponents but you can solidify your locks this way especially after a disenchant et al.

I agree that the Vengeance should be Austere Command. It can wrath the board and give you additional options in this kind of deck.

I WISH Magosi was legendary!!

Obliterate is good once you have established a dominant board presence with 'walkers and sweet ass enchantments, but until then I would hold it back, much like 'haups.

Having piloted a similar deck for some time, I would just like to add some support towards Courtland in regards to the amount of sweepers he runs. This deck, and decks like it, need a way to keep the key pieces on the table, sweepers are the key spell that helps with this. For every wrath he runs most EDH decks pack three creatures. Now how many planeswalkers are there for us to use. Thirteen currently (not counting the three in ROtE). And these walkers function as the "creatures" for this kind of deck. So using that many sweepers, while it may ruin you beaty-stompy good time, are crucial too keep this deck ruining how it's pilot wants it too. I am adding three more to my build as I speak.

End of Line

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This.

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 Post subject: Re: Creatures are for the Weak: Progenitus Planeswalker Control
AgePosted: 2010-Apr-05 8:18 pm 

Joined: 2010-Apr-02 6:44 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Flyover Country, United States
I actually run Rhystic Study in my Zur deck, and I used to run it in Sharuum. The card is nuts, really. Especially for a Common. But there is just no comparison between that card and Necropotence. If nothing else Necropotence, in addition to giving me as many cards as I want right now, Combo's VERY well with Reverse the Sands, which is just a table-wide Mirror Universe.

Courtland wrote:
Bad timing sir, bad timing. At least you probably got some good $$$ for them - tabernacles aren't cheap!


Yeah, tell me about it. I did get about 200 apiece for them just over a year ago. Of course they have jumped close to 100 dollars since then.

as Rhapsody said, The deck needs lots of sweepers. In my first build I was running 8, and while I usually had one, or could get one, if someone, or sometwo decided to Jump on me, I found I just couldn't reliable get enough Brooms quickly enough consistently. Hence the fact that I am now running 11. It actually made a huge difference.

_________________
My $.10

Generals:

Sharuum, the Hegemon (Currently Foiling)
Scion of the Ur-Dragon (currently Foiling)
Karn, Silver Golem
Hazezon Tamar
Zur the Enchanter
Riku of Two Reflections
Very-nearly-Creatureless Sliver Queen PLaneswalkers (under Construction)
Progenitus - Creatures are for the Weak Retired.
Child of Alara: Lich Combo (under construction)


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