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 Post subject: Vorosh, the Hunter - 100 Bullets
AgePosted: 2009-Jan-26 3:25 am 
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Joined: 2009-Jan-08 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Northridge, CA
GENERAL
Vorosh, the Hunter

WIN CONDITION - 23
<CREATURES>
Primeval Titan
Avenger of Zendikar
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Woodfall Primus
Frost Titan
Palinchron
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
Avatar of Woe
Chameleon Colossus
Lord of Extinction
Wurmcoil Engine
Seedborn Muse
Vampire Hexmage

<OTHER WIN>
Genesis Wave
Tooth and Nail
Chord of Calling
Green Sun's Zenith
Living Death
Bribery
Lightning Greaves
Akroma's Memorial
Concordant Crossroads
Garruk Wildspeaker

DRAW/TUTOR/RECURSION - 19
<DRAW>
Phyrexian Arena
Graveborn Muse
Jace Beleren
Greater Good
Sylvan Library
Sensei's Divining Top
Scroll Rack
Fact or Fiction
Momentous Fall
Mulldrifter

<TUTOR>
Fauna Shaman
Survival of the Fittest
Demonic Tutor
Vampiric Tutor

<RECURSION>
Eternal Witness
Restock
Regrowth
Necromancy
Makeshift Mannequin

REMOVAL/CONTROL - 9
<SPOT REMOVAL>
Maelstrom Pulse
Shriekmaw
Duplicant
Sower of Temptation

<SWEEPER>
Damnation
Pernicious Deed

<COUNTER>
Cryptic Command
Mystic Snake
Venser, Shaper Savant

MANA ACCELERATION - 10
Sol Ring
Farhaven Elf
Wood Elves
Cultivate
Kodama's Reach
Yavimaya Elder
Solemn Simulacrum
Skyshroud Claim
Explosive Vegetation
Oracle of Mul Daya

LANDS (only listing lands of note) - 38
Gaea's Cradle
Minamo, School at Water's Edge
Cabal Coffers
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Volrath's Stronghold
Yavimaya Hollow
Strip Mine
High Market
Mosswort Bridge
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
Shizo, Death's Storehouse
Dark Depths

_________________
Generals:
Sapling of Colfenor: Rock
Dakkon Blackblade: Artifact Beatdown, Planeswalker Control
Tolsimir Wolfblood: Enchantress Tokens
Kresh the Bloodbraided: Haymakers

Retired:
Vorosh, the Hunter
Kaalia the Vast


Last edited by PNineFTW on 2011-Mar-09 9:57 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Jan-26 4:04 am 
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Joined: 2008-Aug-23 10:03 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: The Netherlands - Hoorn
I think you should play more creature bombs, there just aren't that many creatures in this last that makes your opponents go "ouch, got to answer that!". Also, some artifact acceleration to speed things up? I'll post some suggestions later this day.


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Jan-26 11:56 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-04 9:41 am
Age: Dragon
No duplicant... :shock:


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Jan-26 5:24 pm 

Joined: 2008-Oct-07 9:26 am
Age: Drake
Location: somewhere in los angeles
I like it the way it is personally, if anything I'd cut the Nekrataal for something a bit more scary...like a huge trampling something, or something.

The scariest creature you have is most likely Vorosh himself, I think you should put Fireshrieker in there just for him. Double-strike can end someone's day real fast, especially when its on a freaking dragon that super-sizes itself.

Oh and another creature that I'd recommend is Spike Weaver! You have lots of ways to tutor him up, and he can be the difference between making an early exit and sticking around for the end.

(For the record, you were only a Heat Shimmer away from winning that game against me way back when..so you aren't giving the deck enough credit)


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2009-Jan-27 12:29 am 
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Joined: 2009-Jan-08 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Northridge, CA
Well, I think you're right PeeJay that I'm probably not giving it enough credit. I'm likely gonna cut Nekrataal. I like the ideas given so far but I'm not sure which one would be a better replacement. Here are the ideas I've gotten thus far:

Spike Weaver
Duplicant
Mindleech Mass
Multani, Maro Sorcerer (these last two are big scary options, as suggested)

Thanks for the posts so far.

_________________
Generals:
Sapling of Colfenor: Rock
Dakkon Blackblade: Artifact Beatdown, Planeswalker Control
Tolsimir Wolfblood: Enchantress Tokens
Kresh the Bloodbraided: Haymakers

Retired:
Vorosh, the Hunter
Kaalia the Vast


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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh, the Hunter (yet another one)
AgePosted: 2009-Aug-02 1:06 am 
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Joined: 2009-Jan-08 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Northridge, CA
Well I've been tootling with the deck for a while and have made enough changes to warrant a repost of a decklist considering I've changed about 22 non-lands from the original list. Here's roughly what it looks like now. I'm still looking for suggestions as I still pretty much get my @$$ kicked, but I think I've worked that out to being mostly my lack of ability to avoid escalation wars (i.e. you dealt me 4 huh, well I'll kill your creature, your land and take 10). I'd be happy to take any pointers.

I have moved the deck away from the MASSIVE amounts of tutor to being a tad more bomby with the ability to tutor. Plus I am moving away from as much control because I end up being a policeman, and apparently my playgroup doesn't like the fuzz (see escalation wars above).

GENERAL
Vorosh, the Hunter

WIN CONDITION-19
<CREATURES>
Spirit of the Night
Avatar of Woe
Simic Sky Swallower
Woodfall Primus
Spiritmonger
Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
Keiga, the Tide Star
Tarmogoyf
Djinn of Wishes (Still testing him, but currently enthralled)
Thornling
Morphling
Seedborn Muse
Forgotten Ancient

<OTHER WIN>
Living Death
Tooth and Nail
Garruk Wildspeaker
Lightning Greaves
Sword of Light and Shadow
Berserk

DRAW/TUTOR/RECURSION-24
<DRAW>
Brainstorm
Fact or Fiction
Frantic Search
Mulldrifter
Shadowmage Infiltrator
Ohran Viper
Harmonize
Sensei's Divining Top

<TUTOR>
Demonic Tutor
Vampiric Tutor
Diabolic Tutor
Liliana Vess
Survival of the Fittest
Worldly Tutor
Mystical Tutor
Tezzeret, the Seeker
Trinket Mage

<RECURSION>
Eternal Witness
Xiahou Dun, the One Eyed
Regrowth
Yawgmoth's Will
Necromancy
Makeshift Mannequin
Life from the Loam

REMOVAL/CONTROL-13
<SPOT CONTROL>
Big Game Hunter
Fleshbag Marauder
Shriekmaw
Maelstrom Pulse
Putrefy
Gilded Drake
Withered Wretch

<SWEEPER>
Nevinyrral's Disk
Pernicious Deed
Damnation

<COUNTER>
Draining Whelk
Glen Elendra Archmage
Cryptic Command

MANA ACCEL/FIXING-7
Sol Ring
Darksteel Ingot
Dimir Signet
Simic Signet
Golgari Signet
Solemn Simulacrum
Krosan Tusker

LANDS-36 (only listing ones with activated abilities)
Volrath's Stronhold
Cephalid Coliseum
Cabal Pit
Tolaria West
Mishra's Factory
Treetop Village
Faerie Conclave

If you have any suggestions please also suggest something to cut, as that is where I am running into walls, I know there are good additions, but finding something to cut.... ehh

Thanks in advance.

_________________
Generals:
Sapling of Colfenor: Rock
Dakkon Blackblade: Artifact Beatdown, Planeswalker Control
Tolsimir Wolfblood: Enchantress Tokens
Kresh the Bloodbraided: Haymakers

Retired:
Vorosh, the Hunter
Kaalia the Vast


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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh, the Hunter (yet another one)
AgePosted: 2009-Aug-02 6:36 am 

Joined: 2009-Jun-05 7:30 am
Age: Elder Dragon
You blatantly need a doubling season and fireshrieker. Turns a doublestriking vorosh into a one hit kill, ending the turn with a 30/30 vorosh. Both are also good independently.

I'm also a fan of Szadek, Lord of Secrets, Mindleech mass and Tidespout Tyrant in these colours. I love sticking fireshrieker on the first 2. I've managed to net a Verdant Force and Pernicious Deed in one attack with a Mindleech Mass and after one attack with a Fireshrieker equipped Szadek you have a 24/24 that attacks for 72 cards.

So far as the Djinn of Wishes is concerned have you considered expanding on it's awesomeness with

Future Sight
Lurking Predators
Cream of the Crop
Sylvan Library
Scroll Rack

_________________
2C:
Nath (Elves everywhere); Wort, the Raidmother (Goblins everywhere)
Shards:
Big Mac and Pickles (Angus Mackenzie Control inc. Pickles Lock)|Sharuum (Artifact Combo)|Garza Zol (Vampires+Goodstuff); Sedris (I can steal anything); Nicol Bolas (WIP)|Kresh (Jund Good Stuff);Karrthus (Dragon Tokens Everywhere)|Tamanoa (Earthquakes Galore)
Wedges:
Oros (Life gaining Pings)|Riku's Perfect Snowstorm (Variety of Storms+Snow)|Doran the Explorer (Wall Tribal)|Ruhan (Voltron);Zedruu (Enchantments)
5C:
Scion (Dragon Stompy Midrange)


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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh, the Hunter (yet another one)
AgePosted: 2009-Aug-02 6:55 am 
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Joined: 2009-Jun-08 6:09 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Germany
you should run Fungal Shambler, just because you can!

_________________
A witty saying proves nothing.
- Voltaire


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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh, the Hunter (yet another one)
AgePosted: 2009-Aug-02 3:43 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Sep-15 10:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Portland, OR
Tarmogoyf isn't actually that good in multiplayer. He'll be big, yeah, but even the biggest vanilla creature is relatively easy to deal with. After the rules change, I'm not sure Morphling is playable either. Frantic Search is card disadvantage, despite being free.

Trygon Predator is an excellent creature, and Masked Admirers is a card advantage engine with Survival.

Have you considered Bone Shredder in place of Big Game Hunter?


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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh, the Hunter (yet another one)
AgePosted: 2009-Aug-03 12:27 am 
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Joined: 2009-Jan-08 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Northridge, CA
Thanks all for the tips so far. I really like the ideas of Fireshrieker, Mindleech Mass, Tidespout Tyrant, Trygon Predator and Masked Admirers. I think Fireshrieker and Mindleech Mass are the most likely for me to find homes for. But the others also if I can find spots, cutting a card from this deck is like pulling off a band-aid.

@DAAAN: I'm not sold on Doubling Season, I know it does huge things with my general, but only when he connects, and by that time it's kind of a win more card. It also doesn't have as much synergy with the rest of the deck, but Fireshrieker on the other hand... tee-hee. Even Shadowmage starts to look scarier. Scroll Rack was in the deck before I added Djinn of Wishes, I might put it back in. Also I have been considering Future Sight, or more likely Magus of the Future for awhile, this could be the catalyst to add it.

@paperwarrior: I tried Bone Shredder out for a long time, in fact it was part of my original build along with Big Game Hunter AND Shriekmaw. I found that I always went for Shriekmaw when I wanted that effect, and Big Game Hunter is SO good with Survival that I can't cut it. Then Fleshbag Maurader hits everyone and is non-targeted. You're right about 'Goyf being big and vanilla, but he's my earliest big threat I can drop. Having out a 5/6 by turn 3-4 generally means my group will point early aggro at someone else instead of wasting an answer on him so early. Morphling probably should go post M10 rules, it just hurts so much. And you may have finally been the one to convince me to drop Frantic Search, it does wonders in my other decks with more reanimation, but not so much here.

Thanks all, and keep 'em coming, especially with suggestions of cuts (though I may argue, I have a lot of pet cards in here LOL)

_________________
Generals:
Sapling of Colfenor: Rock
Dakkon Blackblade: Artifact Beatdown, Planeswalker Control
Tolsimir Wolfblood: Enchantress Tokens
Kresh the Bloodbraided: Haymakers

Retired:
Vorosh, the Hunter
Kaalia the Vast


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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh, the Hunter (yet another one)
AgePosted: 2009-Aug-03 9:00 am 

Joined: 2008-Sep-21 11:51 am
Age: Elder Dragon
So here are my thoughts by card for multi player only

Spirit of the Night - ok , costs alot 9 .. see hypnox / the myodin i mean if you're planning on spending 9 mana might as well get a bit effect
Spiritmonger - ok , rather see lord of extinction / vulture zombies etc
Tarmogoyf - ok at best make you a target early on
Djinn of Wishes - can be really good with stacking you don't have alot of that
Thornling - meh it's a mana sink it doesn't hit all that hard at best case
Morphling - see above
Seedborn Muse - would like to see you abusing it if it's in your deck else meh
Forgotten Ancient - can break games or you could be playing vigor ..

<OTHER WIN>
Living Death - were is your graveyard hate / sac outlets and other mass recursion
Tooth and Nail - good what are your targets
Sword of Light and Shadow - good / I like fire and ice better
Berserk - meh .. would rather see hatred if you want instant speed

DRAW/TUTOR/RECURSION-24
<DRAW>
Brainstorm - ick - see sylvan library - great card in 60 card constructed horid in this format
Fact or Fiction - it costs 4 look at the other draws for under 4
Frantic Search - another great in 60 card horid in this format
Mulldrifter - good
Shadowmage Infiltrator - so how often do you connect with this guy prior to a sweep
Ohran Viper - see above
Harmonize - good see blue draws as well
Sensei's Divining Top - it's top

Diabolic Tutor - would rather see demonic collusion
Survival of the Fittest - genisis ?
Mystical Tutor - targets ?
Tezzeret, the Seeker - ? why ? you're paying 5 to get mana accel artifacts do you need artifact accel once you've hit 5
Trinket Mage - top and sol ring , would like to see more tool box if you're running this guy

<RECURSION>
Eternal Witness - needs victimize
Xiahou Dun, the One Eyed - ug black only, on your turn only , but it's p3k so I'm guessing its there to be cool only
Makeshift Mannequin - ugh so you're betting an entire table of players doesn't have any targeted effects ?
Life from the Loam - what're you pitching lands to / no waste lands / strip mine / etc ?

Big Game Hunter - duplicant ? more bounce
Draining Whelk - mystic snake ? more bounce please
Glen Elendra Archmage - needs more bounce


Dimir Signet - why are you running these ?
Simic Signet - seriously why not critter accel
Golgari Signet - or rampant growth / natures lore ?
Solemn Simulacrum - youve got this but not yavmiya elder ?

Cabal Pit - it does damage to you for the ability to ... kill almost nothing that hits the table in a group game ?


All that being said I can see wy you win duals with this you've got alot of good tempo cards, what you're missing is card advatage engines for later in the game.
Examples
oversold cemetary - you've got cip critters and survival
genisis - survival
bounce effects - cloud stone curio / crystal shard / erratic portal / tawos's coffin are house with alot of your cip critters.
Jace - seriously - oops guy draw some cards everyone happy - you draw cards and they don't it's only 1 etc


blue - you're missing take another turn spells , these are very broken with green recussion
example I've got X take another turn spell X critter that gets spells out of the grave yard + some bounce effect I win unless you all have an answer ?

Not meaning to rag on your deck, and these thoughts are multiplayer only


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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh, the Hunter (yet another one)
AgePosted: 2009-Aug-04 6:02 am 
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Joined: 2009-Jun-08 6:09 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Germany
your multiplayer groups all to run mindslaver, DSC and Ancestral Recall only then, odit ?
because all those cards you rant about are, in fact, good, even in multiplayer.
plus, if one were to follow your advice, it weould need a 200 card deck, for all that toolboxing.

_________________
A witty saying proves nothing.
- Voltaire


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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh, the Hunter (yet another one)
AgePosted: 2009-Aug-04 11:25 am 
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Joined: 2009-Feb-14 11:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Winfield, KS
i know i suggest this in every green deck i read, but try the combo in my sig.
its fun :]

makeshift mannquin is good, i like targeting either keiga or inkwell leviathan, the former is kind of like a dare, "do i keep my 5/5 flyer, or do i get something better?" and the latter has shroud.

i would keep the frantic search and fact or fiction, you have a little recurrsion, i would suggest a little more. you're running good fat dudes, just kinda light on the reanimation, if thats what you're going for. try animate dead, reanimate, hell, why not hell's caretaker? i use genesis chamber in conjunction with him and its worked so far. i personally like merfolk looter and its ilk.

_________________
Image

check out the Mighty Emergence combo.
Thraximundar, "lets paint the town red"
Teysa, Orzhov Scion (retired)
Sasaya (in the making)
Isamaru (in the making)


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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh, the Hunter (yet another one)
AgePosted: 2009-Aug-04 1:08 pm 

Joined: 2008-Sep-21 11:51 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Quote:
your multiplayer groups all to run mindslaver, DSC and Ancestral Recall only then, odit ?
because all those cards you rant about are, in fact, good, even in multiplayer.
plus, if one were to follow your advice, it weould need a 200 card deck, for all that toolboxing


Quote:
The deck does decently in duels, but usually gets smothered in multi-player. I'd like to actually win a MP game, so I'm looking for any suggestions. ... Generally, I dig up a Survival of the Fittest and then creature toolbox from there.


So when i give advice, I tend to brain storm with the cards that the person is using, then add ideas. I could be wrong. Winning a multiplayer game is about 2 things.
1. being able to politic decently this is in the cards and the players personality, an example card wise , what is a better 2 drop ? tarmagoyf or sakaru snake elder ? in a dual the goyf is the way to go, in multi though the snake might be a better choice, as it doesn't draw the groups agro, and mana fixes you after a block. Also you've got to think mid game / late game card engine, not early game suicide speed.

2. the part that folks can never teach on a board, the ability to read your opponents, and be a non threat, no irritant. As an example in a multi player my turns never last more than 20 seconds, other than the I'm killing you turns, the goal is to be quick, not irritate folks and ... it makes the jack ass that's topping for 3 minutes prior to starting his turn the target.

My goal when I give advice is to give the poster ideas perhaps that's make there deck better, perhaps not but at least they've got another persons thoughta to play around with.


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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh, the Hunter (yet another one)
AgePosted: 2009-Aug-04 3:45 pm 

Joined: 2009-Feb-02 2:50 pm
Age: Drake
Location: England
I thought Odit's review of the deck was pretty thorough and objective.
Didn't even see the need to be apologetic in the last few lines, to be honest. "...rag on your deck..."

I've seen far worse "advice" posts with less useful information in them.

Job's a good'un, Odit.

_________________
...then again, I could be wrong. It's become a habit in these forums...


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