MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander
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Official rules for dueling
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Author:  iceage4life [ 2008-Jun-08 2:51 pm ]
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Scout wrote:
Using the regular rules, I've found dueling in EDH to be fun. Actually, after a friend and I scrubbed at regionals we got out the EDH decks and dueled a bit. His Enduring Ideal deck (general: Karona) got me pretty good most of the time.


After scrubbing out as well I played my friend using two of my decks. Intet's single rogue (Looter il-Kor) prowled out Knowledge Exploitation. Was pretty awesome.

Author:  majikfreak [ 2008-Jun-17 4:17 pm ]
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My Small Group of like 4-5 also plays 40/21 and Muligian untill we have at least 3 land... and we Banned Mono blue Control decks... NO one really want to play combo... i have a few little combos in one of my decks... but it's mostly aggro...

Author:  cmb_master [ 2008-Jun-18 6:16 pm ]
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We play with just 40/21. One free mulligan, and afterwards paris-mulligan until there's a keeper. I find the idea of free-mulligans til you have an ample amount of land to be stupid. If that were implemented, I could reduce the number of lands in my deck and commit less to mana sources. So, am I supposed to reward bad deck-building? I don't think so. Having regular mulligans helps players improve their card ratios. I commit almost 50 cards devoted to mana. I also commit a lot to card-drawing so I will not have any problems in my early game set-up. I can say, by using this rule, I rarely have to go past my free mulligan. Either my starting hand is a perfect start or my free mulligan will do it for me. In this format, you have an extra card in your general anyway, so it will never hurt to keep an ample amount of mana sources in your hand.

One thing I suggest is taking out the rule about legendary creatures; it should stay the same as a regular game, with no exceptions to generals. This way, I don't have to worry about having my opponent's general in my deck. Plus, it can be used as a kill spell in this case. I do this all the time with Vesuvan Shapeshifter.

Author:  Token [ 2008-Jun-21 5:50 am ]
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About Mulligan, in France/Normandy (yeah, Godwin point by the way), they use a fun way to mulligan.

They replace the first free mulligan by the "Normand's mullingan" : they put a number of card of their choice from their hand to the bottom of the deck. Then they draw that number of card.

(then there's paris mulligan if they're not satisfied)


It plays smart. I think it can be abusable but it's worth the try.

Author:  Ban Ki-moon [ 2008-Jun-21 10:12 am ]
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Token wrote:
About Mulligan, in France/Normandy (yeah, Godwin point by the way), they use a fun way to mulligan.

They replace the first free mulligan by the "Normand's mullingan" : they put a number of card of their choice from their hand to the bottom of the deck. Then they draw that number of card.

(then there's paris mulligan if they're not satisfied)


It plays smart. I think it can be abusable but it's worth the try.


That's the same mulligan rule that is used for the excellent Eve CCG. It works well and I like it, although there are no Paris mulligans after the first one.

Author:  RickoniX [ 2008-Jun-21 10:12 am ]
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Token wrote:
About Mulligan, in France/Normandy (yeah, Godwin point by the way), they use a fun way to mulligan.

They replace the first free mulligan by the "Normand's mullingan" : they put a number of card of their choice from their hand to the bottom of the deck. Then they draw that number of card.

(then there's paris mulligan if they're not satisfied)


It plays smart. I think it can be abusable but it's worth the try.
Regular highlander uses that mulligan, and I personally think it lets you shape your hand too well, and if a combo deck sees one or two pieces and a crappy hand, they can just bottomdeck the dross and get better cards.

Author:  iceage4life [ 2008-Jun-22 8:11 pm ]
Post subject: 

Token wrote:
About Mulligan, in France/Normandy (yeah, Godwin point by the way), they use a fun way to mulligan.

They replace the first free mulligan by the "Normand's mullingan" : they put a number of card of their choice from their hand to the bottom of the deck. Then they draw that number of card.

(then there's paris mulligan if they're not satisfied)


It plays smart. I think it can be abusable but it's worth the try.


That is SO much better than going to Paris. It also means that good hands become great which seems silly.

Author:  RickoniX [ 2008-Jul-02 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official rules for dueling

Genomancer wrote:
TigTigger wrote:
RickoniX wrote:
Each player gets one free big deck mulligan, then may Paris mulligan as usual.


What the hey... when did that get taken out of the rules?


Never, to my knowledge. :P A single bonus/free mulligan is used almost universally and should have been in the rules all along... not sure when it got removed (or maybe it's been missing all along and no one noticed).

Strange... I'll look into fixing that.
Do you know when this will be added, a lot of people will follow only the rules as written on the main page, so trying to get people to big deck mulligan is difficult.

Author:  Genomancer [ 2008-Jul-04 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official rules for dueling

RickoniX wrote:
Do you know when this will be added, a lot of people will follow only the rules as written on the main page, so trying to get people to big deck mulligan is difficult.


Done.

Author:  Nomad [ 2008-Jul-04 7:53 pm ]
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RickoniX wrote:
Regular highlander uses that mulligan, and I personally think it lets you shape your hand too well, and if a combo deck sees one or two pieces and a crappy hand, they can just bottomdeck the dross and get better cards.


I think I broadly agree, but given you're often playing pretty much 1 game only in EDH, a little more flexibility is in order than std Paris.

We play 1 free mulligan, and you may scry 2 before deciding to keep or not, mostly this does speed things up as it tends to cut things one way or other on slightly questionable hands.

Author:  Destavi [ 2008-Oct-14 9:10 pm ]
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I like the Scrye 2 idea. A lot of times people do that anyway. My group uses pretty liberal mulligan rules. I've been trying to get everybody to agree to big deck mulligans though. On the scrying mulligan, would you get to do that on your first hand as well, or only after mulliganing?

Author:  cmb_master [ 2008-Nov-05 4:22 am ]
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I haven't had much time for much magic lately, because of school taking a toll, but I decided to take a break from readings and just post here.

Most people in the Toronto area have kind of stopped playing. It's either some mid-size multiplayer game, or a duel game every once in a while. You can pretty much say that the EDH phase has passed and it has died. However, when there IS a multiplayer game, someone bitches about a guy playing combo and makes up ridiculous excuses about how this format is supposed to be "casual". Also, even after the ban list got updated, there are still people playing with their Protean Hulks.

With regards to the duel aspect, most people have already incorporated the 30 life change. I ask how they want to play, and they automatically assume it's 30 life. So, I still highly suggest that this to be a default, for reasons I have listed way too much to repeat.

People should really start playing duel based tournaments. When my local store held one back in September, it was pretty awesome. Every time our players met up on Friday for FNM in August, we would discuss new tech or whatever that we would expect for the "meta". You don't get a solid idea for a meta in a multiplayer format, however in a duel format, certain strategies start forming. I believe it would do the format a lot of good if certain players started playing this "competitively" to bring back that kind of spark to it. I know the reason a lot of players around here stop playing was because, despite it's claims, the format is not as easily accessible. That is because most of the high power cards necessary for multiplayer is more expensive than the cards that are necessary for duels. I can easily construct a deck playable in duels that would never survive in multiplayer. (For an example, look at Doraemon's RDW list. I lost the match in our tourney because of Boil.)

I'm hoping to see someone try this out. It would be great to play a constant shifting format like this.

Author:  Vhailor [ 2008-Nov-05 5:25 am ]
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After having brainstormed and playtested during months, most people in France have finally agreed recently on a common banlist for duels in EDH tournaments. There are as few cards as possible, as the banlist creators finally agreed on the fact that people should play answers for threats (graveyard hate, land or hand disruption, fast beatdown...).

Mana acceleration :
* Black Lotus : cost ($$$) and power level
* Mox Emerald : cost ($$$) and power level
* Mox Jet : cost ($$$) and power level
* Mox Pearl : cost ($$$) and power level
* Mox Ruby : cost ($$$) and power level
* Mox Sapphire : cost ($$$) and power level

Tempo acceleration
:
* Time Walk : cost ($$$) and cost (mana). Time Warp seems a well balanced card, Time Walk is just too cheap.

Card drawers and tutors :
* Yawgmoth's Bargain : There are too many ways to bring this card into play fast and then win the game.
* Ancestral Recall : cost ($$$) and power level, makes decks play blue necessarily.
* Necropotence : Too fast to bring to play, proved to win the game in a few turns.
* Tinker : Too fast, too furious.
* Gifts Ungiven : With all the regrowth-like cards available, this spell allow to tutor a 2-cards combo entirely at the end of turn for a complete victory after untap.
* Protean Hulk : What was a good creature in mono-green proved to be an instant-win when playing several colors.

Brute force :
* Mindslaver : When activated just once, makes you win the game. Being an artifact, can be reanimated and tutored too easily.
* Crucible of Worlds : Too strong with Wasteland and Strip Mine.
* Mind Twist : Mind Shatter is already available, there shouldn't be too many cards allowing to break in one shot any control deck without blue.
* Sundering Titan : Against multicolor decks, Blood Moon and alike are good. Titan just breaks the game, and even if you Sword it to Plowshares, he still breaks your remaining lands.

Anti-general :
* Riftsweeper
* Karakas


Also on the watch list (not banned, but may become after more tournaments have been played) :
* Sol Ring : Many players have one and want to play it, so it wasn't banned, due to popular demand. But it remains a highly strong card.
* Life from the Loam : Proved to be extremely strong with all annoying lands (Wasteland, Strip Mine) to lock the game down, but people should pay more attention at playing graveyard hate, especially since a new one is available (Relic of Progenitus).

Author:  cmb_master [ 2008-Nov-05 6:09 am ]
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I absolutely love it. You people in France have been doing a great job. I liked how you guys kept the list to a minimum. It was ridiculous before, where lots of powerful cards were on the list, which didn't have to be there. I have no problem with the list you guys came up with at all. The only card I'm sad to see go is Gifts Ungiven, although, I understand just how easy to break the thing is. However, it makes me wonder why that was put before Intuition. Gifts Ungiven, is a powerful card, but it costs 4 mana, which is a big jump from 3. Anywhere before 5 mana is a big jump per mana. And if what you say is true about Regrowth effects is true, then I'm quite surprised that Intuition isn't on the list, considering that Intuition can be played turn 1, and set up a turn 2 lock/kill.

For Sol Ring and Life from the Loam, I agree with the argument. For Sol Ring, yes, there are incredibly powerful plays off of Sol Ring, but again, I've said it, after a certain turn number, it becomes pretty null, and if your opening hand doesn't have a certain way to abuse Sol Ring, it's effect on the game isn't as much of an impact. For Life from the Loam, it is just not as powerful as Crucible. The moment Crucible hits play, you never have to worry anymore. You can Strip Mine/Wasteland every turn without worry. However, with Life from the Loam, you can be countered, get your targets removed, or have your Loam removed. These are the key points that make Life from the Loam much weaker than Crucible. However, the upside to Loam is the synergy with cycle lands for a draw engine. Barring that, Life from the Loam is still much weaker than Crucible.

EDIT: I left out one thing. I feel that Mindslaver should not be on the list. There is only one case where it is ridiculous, is when you have the 12 mana + Academy for the lock. But at that point in the game, you probably have already secured the game a long time ago anyway. My argument is that, Mindslaver is only as good as how greedy your opponent is. For example, a while back, I was playing a friend in a duel, and my deck was clearly the much more powerful one. At one point in the game, I Mindslaver'd him. However, because his spells costed much more than mine did, and his deck was less efficient, I only managed to play 2 spells, and barely made any effect on the game. However, when he Mindslaver'd me back, because of the amount of cheap spells and the efficiency of my deck, he got rid of 5+ cards in my hand and killed/bounced 3 of my permanents. One of the big reasons Mindslaver was powerful was the presence of Tinker. If you take out Tinker from the equation, Mindslaver's power level drops significantly.

Author:  urielxvi [ 2008-Nov-05 7:32 am ]
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I also love everything except the mindslaver banning, the card can be played in any deck, it costs 10 to play and use, and even more to abuse(the abuse part falls under the "learn to play GY hate". If your opponent plays it, you can Word of Seizing it, or Black Beacon it. If you are scared of it, play Pithing needle (this card should be a staple anyways). With Tinker being banned, its harder to cheat out a mindslaver quickly.

All other spells that cost 10 mana should win you the game, (Storm Herd, Time Stretch, Myojins, Eternal Dominion) so there is no reason mindslaver should be banned. Yes it only costs 6 to play, but that gives the opponent a full turn to answer it or atleast prepare for it....

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